Asked to leave for OC

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  • HICKMAN

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    22   0   0
    Jan 10, 2009
    16,762
    48
    Lawrence Co.
    How about this:

    "Dear Kroger,

    I was asked this evening to leave one of your stores because I was carrying a gun in plain sight. I realize that I could carry my gun in a concealed fashion, and disturb no one, and not cause any commotion in your store that might cost you a sale, but I have this ego thing that makes me want to be Clint Eastwood and carry my gun so people can see that I'm somebody. If I had to carry it concealed, I couldn't show off and would be nobody.

    Thank you for exercising your property owner rights and safeguarding your financial bottom line. I fully agree that there is no reason for me, or anyone, to carry a firearm in open sight in an environment where it may not be appreciated and cost a merchant business. I didn't think. I'll try harder next time."

    Tweek that a little and fire it off to Kroger.

    Sounds like a Brady Campaign supporter... can't have those 2nd amendment guys trying to normalize people into getting used to seeing guns again, can we? Gotta keep those guns hidden, out of sight.

    A majority of Americans oppose people carrying loaded guns openly in public. More feel unsafe than feel safer - and a third feel much less safe with that knowledge, according to a poll conducted for the Brady Center by the polling firm Lake Research Partners.

    Paul Helmke, President of the Brady Center, said of the findings, “Having more guns in public places not only puts more people at risk, it clearly makes people feel less safe.”



    POSITION: The Brady Campaign opposes the unregulated open carry of guns in public places and supports the rights of businesses to keep out persons who seek to carry firearms, whether openly or concealed, onto their premises.

    PROBLEM: More and more gun owners, seeking to “make a statement” about their right to have a gun, are openly carrying guns in public places like restaurants and coffee shops, as well as to political events like town hall meetings. Some gun owners have even openly carried assault weapons and other guns outside of Presidential events. Although most states regulate the carrying of concealed weapons, at least by requiring a license, few states regulate open carry.

    THREAT: The open carrying of firearms in public places is inherently threatening and intimidating, and poses risks to those nearby, to law enforcement and to the community. For example, when open carry has occurred in retail stores, other customers quickly become alarmed and the police often are called to the scene, creating a volatile and potentially dangerous situation. Everyone should have the right to sit in a coffee shop or a restaurant with their families, including their children, without being confronted with the threatening presence of openly-displayed handguns and assault weapons.

    URGENCY: There is a growing “open carry” movement among gun activists, who seek to make a political statement by gathering in coffee shops, restaurants and other public locations with their guns openly on display. Given the absence of meaningful regulation of open carry in the vast majority of states, more and more Americans will be faced with the intimidation and danger of confronting guns in public places.

    SOLUTION: Businesses should bar the open, as well as the concealed, carry of firearms on their premises. States where open carry is largely unregulated should either prohibit open carry, with limited exceptions, or adopt measures to subject open carry to strict licensing requirements in the interest of public safety.





    Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence : Open Carry Guns
     

    SSGSAD

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    14   0   0
    Dec 22, 2009
    12,404
    48
    Town of 900 miles
    I OC in Krogers nearly daily without issue. A few months back the local Manager on the S.Side of Indy asked about my 1911 Kimber w/Rosewood USMC Grips. (Pretty IF I do say so myself) and after about 10 minutes of conversation I began to realize his lack of education on Indiana Gun Laws and Carrying openly. He was very surprised to find out the OC laws and rights of gun owners.
    I think a friendly conversation with both sides being able to talk freely might open up some previously closed minds and misconceptions of the laws here. Just a thought.
    Which S'side Kroger ????? I grew up, near Southern Plaza ..... near 31 south, and Hanna ave...
     

    SideArmed

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Apr 22, 2011
    1,739
    38
    Ninja, you should have joined us over at Bubs Burgers for dinner, then none of this would have happened.

    But good to know about the mall cop over at the Kroger, I don't shop at that one much, but good to know that I may be harassed if I ever do.

    I will keep an eye out in the HT tomorrow for the "breaking news" about a gunman at the east side Kroger.
     

    sloughfoot

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    26   0   0
    Apr 17, 2008
    7,178
    83
    Huntertown, IN
    I deleted my first post but this thread is like a flame and I am the moth.

    Somebody please explain to me why, when you are in someone else's house and they ask you to leave, why you don't just say, "OK" and then leave?

    Why do you force that misguided person into a corner by arguing with them in front of other people that they normally give direction to?

    Surely you don't think that they will see the wisdom and profound truth of your argument and relent, smile and say that you are right? In front of their employees?

    Why do you think making a scene by not leaving quietly helps your cause?
     

    1911 mike

    Marksman
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    May 13, 2009
    243
    18
    3rd rock from the sun
    Well I say that us as members should all get together, about 50 to 75 and at a specific date and time march into the store(all of us open carry) go shopping!! And prior to our open carry, we call the local news and papers. United we stand, divided we fall! I'm down for this one.
    I just left my local Kroger's and walked right past the security guard several times and not one peep from him or anyone else.
     

    SideArmed

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Apr 22, 2011
    1,739
    38
    I deleted my first post but this thread is like a flame and I am the moth.

    Somebody please explain to me why, when you are in someone else's house and they ask you to leave, why you don't just say, "OK" and then leave?

    Why do you force that misguided person into a corner by arguing with them in front of other people that they normally give direction to?

    Surely you don't think that they will see the wisdom and profound truth of your argument and relent, smile and say that you are right? In front of their employees?

    Why do you think making a scene by not leaving quietly helps your cause?

    I don't see anywhere in the OP that he stated that he "made a scene". All he did was ask the manager to explain why he was being asked to leave. And to explain the stores policy.

    I know if I am being asked to leave a business I would like to know why. Are you saying that if you were out having dinner with your family and someone came up and said, "I am sorry sir but we don't allow red shirts in here, I am going to have to ask you to go out to your car and change it, then come back in here and spend your money anyway", that you wouldn't question their motives at all?

    I don't think that is going to help anyone's cause. :twocents:
     

    sloughfoot

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    26   0   0
    Apr 17, 2008
    7,178
    83
    Huntertown, IN
    I don't know what "cause" you are talking about. As I read the post he was told why they wanted him to leave. Instead of just leaving, he chose to argue with the manager about the company policy. "The scene"

    My point is, why put the professionaly trained manager on the spot where she could not back down without looking like a fool in front of her employees.

    It would be far better to just quietly leave and resolve it later when egos are not on the line.
     

    actaeon277

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Nov 20, 2011
    95,233
    113
    Merrillville
    How about this:

    "Dear Kroger,

    I was asked this evening to leave one of your stores because I was carrying a gun in plain sight. I realize that I could carry my gun in a concealed fashion, and disturb no one, and not cause any commotion in your store that might cost you a sale, but I have this ego thing that makes me want to be Clint Eastwood and carry my gun so people can see that I'm somebody. If I had to carry it concealed, I couldn't show off and would be nobody.

    Thank you for exercising your property owner rights and safeguarding your financial bottom line. I fully agree that there is no reason for me, or anyone, to carry a firearm in open sight in an environment where it may not be appreciated and cost a merchant business. I didn't think. I'll try harder next time."

    Tweek that a little and fire it off to Kroger.

    Some might say you CC'ing would be the same thing, Clint Eastwood.

    Someone's afraid because you're obeying the law? Why is it your problem?

    No reason. Maybe because it's a right. Damn rights always getting in the way.
     

    actaeon277

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Nov 20, 2011
    95,233
    113
    Merrillville
    I deleted my first post but this thread is like a flame and I am the moth.

    Somebody please explain to me why, when you are in someone else's house and they ask you to leave, why you don't just say, "OK" and then leave?

    Why do you force that misguided person into a corner by arguing with them in front of other people that they normally give direction to?

    Surely you don't think that they will see the wisdom and profound truth of your argument and relent, smile and say that you are right? In front of their employees?

    Why do you think making a scene by not leaving quietly helps your cause?

    It's not the manager's house. It is corporate's house. And corporate's rule is to go by state law. Therefore, the manager was out of line.
     

    Mackey

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    Nov 4, 2011
    3,282
    48
    interwebs
    How about this:

    "Dear Kroger,

    I was asked this evening to leave one of your stores because I was carrying a gun in plain sight. I realize that I could carry my gun in a concealed fashion, and disturb no one, and not cause any commotion in your store that might cost you a sale, but I have this ego thing that makes me want to be Clint Eastwood and carry my gun so people can see that I'm somebody. If I had to carry it concealed, I couldn't show off and would be nobody.

    Thank you for exercising your property owner rights and safeguarding your financial bottom line. I fully agree that there is no reason for me, or anyone, to carry a firearm in open sight in an environment where it may not be appreciated and cost a merchant business. I didn't think. I'll try harder next time."

    Tweek that a little and fire it off to Kroger.

    So.....
    what are you trying to say.

    Really, I wonder how many converts to gun rights your episode engendered. Certainly not the people you spoke to. I'm not sure why a person in this situation would not simply comply and then write to management and corporate. It seems like it makes gun owners out to be aholes.

    But, to each his own. I think it took a lot of gut for those people to stand up to an armed man.
     

    Relatively Ninja

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Mar 30, 2011
    394
    18
    Indianapolis
    I deleted my first post but this thread is like a flame and I am the moth.

    Somebody please explain to me why, when you are in someone else's house and they ask you to leave, why you don't just say, "OK" and then leave?

    Why do you force that misguided person into a corner by arguing with them in front of other people that they normally give direction to?

    Surely you don't think that they will see the wisdom and profound truth of your argument and relent, smile and say that you are right? In front of their employees?

    Why do you think making a scene by not leaving quietly helps your cause?

    I never made a scene or argued with anyone. Just like SideArmed said, I was trying to find out why I was being asked to leave. I was talking to one or two other people quietly and out of the way of the other customers. When it came time for me to leave, I shook the security guard's hand and walked out peacefully. The reason I didn't leave immediately is because the security guard didn't seem like he had any idea what the laws were concerning carrying a weapon. He said "you can't just walk into a grocery store with a gun on you, even if you do have a permit". That wasn't exactly a confidence-inspiring statement, if you know what I mean.
     

    SideArmed

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Apr 22, 2011
    1,739
    38
    I don't know what "cause" you are talking about. As I read the post he was told why they wanted him to leave. Instead of just leaving, he chose to argue with the manager about the company policy. "The scene"

    My point is, why put the professionaly trained manager on the spot where she could not back down without looking like a fool in front of her employees.

    It would be far better to just quietly leave and resolve it later when egos are not on the line.

    Quoted from the OP, Not sure where you are getting the arguing bit from.

    I stayed calm and polite throughout all the conversations I had this evening: security guard, manager, and both customer service reps

    I choose to shop at certain places and spend my money at establishments that support a persons right to self defense and choose to follow their respective state laws. Being that I have made this decision in my life, there are some places that I will not go, and will not spend money to support their business.

    Now that being said, it sounds to me like the OP had a relatively good idea about what the Kroger corporate policy was before he entered the store, and perhaps he has the same mindset that I and many many other members of this board do. In that when asked to leave an establishment simply because of carrying a firearm, wants to be definitively clear as to whether they are speaking on behalf of themselves or the company they represent. So that when the call is made later on to the corporate offices, he can give an accurate account of the situation.

    And I would think that a "professionally trained manager" should be able to conduct themselves in a professional manor in front of their employees, no matter the situation.

    Having spent some time working in the grocery industry, I am betting that at 9pm on a Thursday evening it wasn't the store manager that approached him, just a shift supervisor.
     

    Relatively Ninja

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Mar 30, 2011
    394
    18
    Indianapolis
    I don't know what "cause" you are talking about. As I read the post he was told why they wanted him to leave. Instead of just leaving, he chose to argue with the manager about the company policy. "The scene"

    My point is, why put the professionaly trained manager on the spot where she could not back down without looking like a fool in front of her employees.

    It would be far better to just quietly leave and resolve it later when egos are not on the line.

    The "cause" that he was referring to is my second amendment right to bear arms. If you think that a civil conversation is a "scene", then yes, I caused one. But I believe that walking out immediately is not the appropriate solution. It was possible that I could have talked to the manager and she would have recognized that the security guard was in the wrong. This would have been an excellent opportunity to educate someone. Furthermore, a manager should have the courage to correct a lower employee when they are wrong. It's not cowardice to tell the security guard he's wrong, it's good management to show him what is right. However, it appeared that both people needed some educating, so I left once the manager had made her position clear.

    I'm really disappointed in the security guard. He told me that he also had his license to carry and that he owns and carries a weapon. He wasn't carrying at the time (company policy for employees), but he seemed to have no idea what the laws are. I really wish that a fellow gun owner would have known enough to not make this a problem in the first place.
     

    MikeDVB

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    Mar 9, 2012
    8,688
    63
    Morgan County
    but he seemed to have no idea what the laws are. I really wish that a fellow gun owner would have known enough to not make this a problem in the first place.
    This isn't uncommon, sadly.

    Until it's printed on the license itself (perhaps the back) stating that Concealed and Open Carry is permitted except in certain places (Schools, etc...) then you're going to constantly have people who don't know.

    Now I understand that the license itself is not IC (i.e. not law), printing the low on the card itself wouldn't be a bad idea (well, until they change the law...)

    To be honest, I was unsure about OC/CC until I did some research on my own, and that's mostly because I like knowing as much as I can about anything I can and I enjoy reading the law. If I were your "average" person, I probably wouldn't go through the trouble and/or would presume it was illegal.
     

    handgun

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Apr 1, 2012
    1,735
    48
    Central part of This state
    I personally like to open carry and do so as often as I can. It depends on the situation though. I have never been asked to leave any store or restaurant yet! I have had a few customers of establishments ask if was a cop or something along those lines. I smile at them and say NO. One lady asked if i worked for the CIA and if i was a spy. I again smiled at her and said No. I really need some business cards that explain why people carry guns that are not LE/GOV. types.
     
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