Army suspends Tuition Assistance

[Kutnupe14]

Can't we all just get along.......at least in the break room.

Bottom line is they are trying to make sequestration hurt and rub our noses in it.
Most of us have served our country in one way or another, either locally, or nationally. We need to focus our anger at the cause, not at each other.

Kut, lets go argue about something in the politics section before I start singing Kumbaya in here.

deal... I'm sure I can find some other subject where I disagree with the rest of INGO, lol

 

[KJQ6945]

After a couple cold ones I always think your signature is aimed directly at me!

 

[jdmack79]

You might as well stop trying to argue with these two. It is obvious they are liberal trolls and will only run to a moderator the first time they get their panties in a bunch.

They come in this thread and fully support the suspension of TA for our troops yet, they say nothing about illegal aliens getting reduced or free college tuition (essentially a full ride scholarship) where TA only funds a portion of college tuition. They also don't mention that to advance to higher ranks, a college degree is required.

They don't refute our giving Egypt $250m or the billions in foreign aid.
They don't refute the ship we just gave to Singapore.
They don't refute the 99 months of unemployment "benefits" or the swelling welfare ranks and obamaphones.

...Even though we can all find a cause far less worthy of our tax dollars than military tuition like illegal immigrants, food stamps, cell phones for the poor it still is an expense we shouldn't have... Everyone seems to oppose government handouts unless it goes to the military...

EVERYTHING in this country needs its budget reduced...

...Many of us agree that things like TA for soldiers have a more constitutional basis than things like foreign aid, welfare, etc...

...Everyone seems to be in favor of cutting spending, but it is never from a program that benefits them...

Sacrifices must be made by everyone if our nation is going to stop spending money that we don't have. We can't reasonably expect that the only people to get their benefits cut are those on welfare.

Whether you like it or not, what one person calls their benefits another calls a government handout. As taxpayers we must demand that our government get realistic with spending and stop making expensive promises to employees that it can't possibly keep.

You should consider a class that focuses on reading comprehension to add to those 130 free credits. It is blatantly obvious that we are trying to use logic with our arguments, but you simply choose to ignore it.

We have constantly said that there are many things that our government spends money on that are far less worthwhile than military tuition. The point that we are making is that this is still an expensive program that we can't afford.

Whether you like it or not, the military needs its budget cut. It is filled with programs that are not only costing us a fortune, but piling debt on future generations as well.

It's quite sad that you feel entitled to my money solely because you serve. I'm glad you serve, but the theft of my money to fund everything from your healthcare, education, and mortgages simply isn't right.

 

[NiDanHeno]

Of course the budget has plenty of spend that could cease likely as soon as tomorrow and many to include myself would cheer. I don't understand why you would cheer cuts directly effecting troops. That is where I'm struggling to understand yet another "Fairness" argument. Simply isn't right does sound good in a so called debate but what is wrong about it really. Is it that too much is spent? Or that any amount is spent? Clearly spending on behalf of the nation's security is one of the few things that the Federal Government is actually supposed to be empowered to do. Yes, I suppose the argument could continue about how much is 'fair' and what is 'right'. But I wonder how much debt is being piled on the back of our children in the form of Tuition Assistance, housing and healthcare for those serving. Is it material enough to have such a strong opinion about? Do any of us even have those facts? Maybe getting all high and mighty about the cost dropped per bomb, tank and other weapons system. Or how about the value of any given war at any given time. Sure, but really, To get all "Let me tell you what is right" over direct support of troops? That is where I am struggling here.

 

[IndyDave1776]

So much here at which to throw bricks!

First, fair compensation for services rendered is NOT an entitlement, fact that the .gov cuts the check notwithstanding. Changing the terms under which people enlisted when they are not free to leave in response is not acceptable. As previously noted, maintaining national defense is one of the few things the .gov does that is constitutionally authorized. Paying people what they were promised for what they do is to be expected, including such things as paying tuition.

Second, this is a prime example of how bean counters and crooked politicians in suits and also in uniforms are ruining the country. I don't give a damn how the numbers break down per person on average of actual spending or the total value of what a service member theoretically has available. In order to get those numbers, I can see no possible way without both assigning as income what the government spends and also the assumption that everyone takes everything. In the former case, it is of no concern to me that the government paid the fair market value for the best champagne, if the service member receives cheap beer for the money spend, don't try telling me that he has received the income analogous to the champagne. It doesn't matter that the government overspent, the soldier didn't receive that much value. Second, I fail to see any way that those numbers could have been conjured up without assuming that every service member took everything of value available to him short of stealing the faucets on the way out the door at the end of his enlistment. If we want to cut costs, paying a reasonable price for the goods and services procured and/or supplied to the service members would be a good place to start.

It all looks good on paper, but in every case I have seen, the reality doesn't match up. Oh, and in case anyone missed it the first time, compensation for services rendered is NOT an entitlement as so many appear to consider it.

 

[GMtoblat]

i havent read the entire thread so forgive me if this has been covered. but i can understand why they cut that. the soldiers job is to defend this country not go to school. yes, it is a great benefit but i feel it's not an entitlement like the GI bill. i did use TA while i was in but i was so busy doing my job i only took two classes before i said i have way too much on my plate. Now i am using my GI bill to get my degree, so the gov. hasnt taken away that benefit, just cut the thing that should be secondary to a soldiers career while acitve.

 

[Que]

i havent read the entire thread so forgive me if this has been covered. but i can understand why they cut that. the soldiers job is to defend this country not go to school. yes, it is a great benefit but i feel it's not an entitlement like the GI bill. i did use TA while i was in but i was so busy doing my job i only took two classes before i said i have way too much on my plate. Now i am using my GI bill to get my degree, so the gov. hasnt taken away that benefit, just cut the thing that should be secondary to a soldiers career while acitve.

You are absolutely right. TA was not promised as a benefit to any soldier. Only what is noted on the contract is a guarantee.

I was told that I could be stationed anywhere in the world, but only got Ft. Bragg, NC. I was told that I could change my MOS after I got to my permanent duty station, but was denied. I was told that barracks had one-man rooms, but I had a room mate. I was told that I could take classes and TA would help pay, but I could never get the time off from being in the field -- which always happened around finals -- or being deployed. None of these things were guaranteed to me, but COULD have happened if the mission didn't take priority.

 

[NiDanHeno]

Que, I absolutley agree with you the mission always comes first. I'm sure we all experienced that at one time or another (most likley many times). Even when I reenlisted and had my change of MOS in writting with approvals in hand it didn't happen, such is the way it goes. I certainly get that, and of course a good soldier just picks up and marches out smartly. All the more reason I hate to seem them cut direct support even if it does make sense on paper (although just about anything can makes sense in a flashy powerpoint presentation).

 

[drillsgt]

You are absolutely right. TA was not promised as a benefit to any soldier. Only what is noted on the contract is a guarantee.

I was told that I could be stationed anywhere in the world, but only got Ft. Bragg, NC. I was told that I could change my MOS after I got to my permanent duty station, but was denied. I was told that barracks had one-man rooms, but I had a room mate. I was told that I could take classes and TA would help pay, but I could never get the time off from being in the field -- which always happened around finals -- or being deployed. None of these things were guaranteed to me, but COULD have happened if the mission didn't take priority.

I guess this is okay if it's government wide and not just singling out the military. There are other branches of goverment that provide college assistance as well. What about forgiving student loans for those who work on capital hill that we've heard about, is that cancelled? What about forgiving student loans for those who choose to work in rural areas like programs for some doctors and social workers etc.?

 

[Que]

I guess this is okay if it's government wide and not just singling out the military. There are other branches of goverment that provide college assistance as well. What about forgiving student loans for those who work on capital hill that we've heard about, is that cancelled? What about forgiving student loans for those who choose to work in rural areas like programs for some doctors and social workers etc.?

We can go around the world with the "what-abouts." I guess I'm just becoming more like my father everyday. I miss the days when soldiers were not political, kept their mouths shut and did their jobs. Now, everybody moans and groans, "It's not fair!" and "What about them?" These days it just seems like many service members feel entitled to a free meal, pats on the back for being deployed and receiving the obligatory "thanks for your service" every time they walk down the street. The mindset of "adapt and overcome" is dead! The belief that "I only did my job" is dead!

 

[atvdave]

We can go around the world with the "what-abouts." I guess I'm just becoming more like my father everyday. I miss the days when soldiers were not political, kept their mouths shut and did their jobs. Now, everybody moans and groans, "It's not fair!" and "What about them?" These days it just seems like many service members feel entitled to a free meal, pats on the back for being deployed and receiving the obligatory "thanks for your service" every time they walk down the street. The mindset of "adapt and overcome" is dead! The belief that "I only did my job" is dead!

None have ever asked me for it, but I tell them thank you for your service anyway.

 

[drillsgt]

We can go around the world with the "what-abouts." I guess I'm just becoming more like my father everyday. I miss the days when soldiers were not political, kept their mouths shut and did their jobs. Now, everybody moans and groans, "It's not fair!" and "What about them?" These days it just seems like many service members feel entitled to a free meal, pats on the back for being deployed and receiving the obligatory "thanks for your service" every time they walk down the street. The mindset of "adapt and overcome" is dead! The belief that "I only did my job" is dead!

Come on Que you were active duty when have you ever heard soldiers not complain it's what we do but when it's time to move out and get the job done then we shut up. I'm not sure what entitled soldiers you've run into but I haven't had that experience.

 

[Que]

Come on Que you were active duty when have you ever heard soldiers not complain it's what we do but when it's time to move out and get the job done then we shut up. I'm not sure what entitled soldiers you've run into but I haven't had that experience.

Drill, you are right about soldiers complaining, but getting the job done. I guess the overall tone of this thread and others have collectively shaped my opinion. I've read a few threads with soldiers appearing to feel like they were entitled to certain benefits because they have/are serving. I disagree, but that's just one man's opinion.

 

[drillsgt]

Drill, you are right about soldiers complaining, but getting the job done. I guess the overall tone of this thread and others have collectively shaped my opinion. I've read a few threads with soldiers appearing to feel like they were entitled to certain benefits because they have/are serving. I disagree, but that's just one man's opinion.

I understand where you're coming from, i'm actually not even a proponent of the current retirement system. I think it's silly to give someone who may only be say 38yo a full retirement. But, that was the agreement that was made when they enlisted so we have to honor it. When I get mob'd I hear the active duty guys complaining about money but they are a little out of touch. When mob'd as an E6 I was making over 5K a month-with per diem it was over 6K, nothing to complain about at all. A young Captain is making abot 5500.00 before any additional pays. A young E3 with less than 2 years service is making 1800.00, not bad for a young kid, if they don't have money it's because they blew it on nonsense. I don't think those in the military are underpaid at all same with LEO's.

 

[Sainte]

I understand where you're coming from, i'm actually not even a proponent of the current retirement system. I think it's silly to give someone who may only be say 38yo a full retirement. But, that was the agreement that was made when they enlisted so we have to honor it. When I get mob'd I hear the active duty guys complaining about money but they are a little out of touch. When mob'd as an E6 I was making over 5K a month-with per diem it was over 6K, nothing to complain about at all. A young Captain is making abot 5500.00 before any additional pays. A young E3 with less than 2 years service is making 1800.00, not bad for a young kid, if they don't have money it's because they blew it on nonsense. I don't think those in the military are underpaid at all same with LEO's.

It's a "full retirement" in name only. At 20 years of service, a member can retire at 50% of Base Pay. (Base Pay for an E-6 at 20 is $3650/mo.) So, your $6000/mo, which include ALL other pays turns into something like $1800/mo. retirement pay. This check comes on the first of each month and is taxed by the state and fed govs. It is now around $1200/mo in retirement pay, if youre lucky. God forbid you have C U Next Tuesday pay taken out of that $1200.....so now you're down anywhere from 10%-50% of that retirement pay. ($1080-$600 is what you're left)

So, after 20 years of getting the snot beat out of you. Bullets flying at you. Seeing and experiencing things that 97% of the rest of the people in the country dont experience. Being deployed at last minute to wherever. No guaranty of working an 8 hour day with coffee breaks, more like 12-14 hour days starting at 0500 or so. You get to retire at 38. Then you get the awesome experience of competing against some 22 y/o for the same job. A 22 y/o who isnt going bargain as hard for the job. Will accept lower pay and benefits packages. Who wont stand up for themselves as much. A 22 y/o that a potential employer looks at as having more time with the company than a 38 y/o.

And for those that say it's "volunteer". Ya, it is voluntary. Then you are in it for at least FOUR years without being able to "un-Volunteer."

 

[Que]

It's a "full retirement" in name only. At 20 years of service, a member can retire at 50% of Base Pay. (Base Pay for an E-6 at 20 is $3650/mo.) So, your $6000/mo, which include ALL other pays turns into something like $1800/mo. retirement pay. This check comes on the first of each month and is taxed by the state and fed govs. It is now around $1200/mo in retirement pay, if youre lucky. God forbid you have C U Next Tuesday pay taken out of that $1200.....so now you're down anywhere from 10%-50% of that retirement pay. ($1080-$600 is what you're left)

So, after 20 years of getting the snot beat out of you. Bullets flying at you. Seeing and experiencing things that 97% of the rest of the people in the country dont experience. Being deployed at last minute to wherever. No guaranty of working an 8 hour day with coffee breaks, more like 12-14 hour days starting at 0500 or so. You get to retire at 38. Then you get the awesome experience of competing against some 22 y/o for the same job. A 22 y/o who isnt going bargain as hard for the job. Will accept lower pay and benefits packages. Who wont stand up for themselves as much. A 22 y/o that a potential employer looks at as having more time with the company than a 38 y/o.

And for those that say it's "volunteer". Ya, it is voluntary. Then you are in it for at least FOUR years without being able to "un-Volunteer."

Where are you stationed?