Are DPMS AR's good?

[sloughfoot]

I carried a M16 in 1970. I hope/think it was Mil-Spec... It didn't work most of the time. I was too young and too dumb to know if it was mil or commercial. It was issued to me by Uncle Sugar. We all called it a M16. They gave us a comic book with someone called Connie to learn how to maintain it because we and our Sergeants were too stupid to figure it out for ourselves. We had 20 round mags for it. It would fire full auto.

I liked my 45 1911 better. It worked every time. They didn't get up afterward.

I just shot what they gave me.....We all knew that what we had was provided by the lowest bidder. Big joke. Ha ha.

I have to admit, I am slow to learn...

But I like my RRA and Bushmasters a lot better than that M16 I had in 1970. And I have no faith in the term "mil-spec". I trust the commercial makers who must prove their products in the marketplace far more than someone who just has to meet a mil-spec.

 

[teddy12b]

I carried a M16 in 1970. I hope/think it was Mil-Spec... It didn't work most of the time. I was too young and too dumb to know if it was mil or commercial. It was issued to me by Uncle Sugar. We all called it a M16. They gave us a comic book with someone called Connie to learn how to maintain it because we and our Sergeants were to stupid to figure it out for ourselves. We had 20 round mags for it. It would fire full auto.

I liked my 45 1911 better. It worked every time. They didn't get up afterward.

I just shot what they gave me.....We all knew that what we had was provided by the lowest bidder. Big joke. Ha ha.

I have to admit, I am slow to learn...

But I like my RRA and Bushmasters a lot better than that M16 I had in 1970.

Some things will never change. My M16 jammed on me in the sandbox. I cleaned it, walked 50 yards and fired for a test fire and jammed a couple of times. Kinda shattered my confidence in the rifle.

Mil-spec has some nice refinements to it, but that doesn't mean it's perfect by a long shot.

 

[sloughfoot]

Hey teddy12b, No excuses. Come out for the unregistered 40 shot, 300 yard prone match next Saturday at FWRR. Deal?

 

[teddy12b]

Hey teddy12b, No excuses. Come out for the unregistered 40 shot, 300 yard prone match next Saturday at FWRR. Deal?

I need to get my butt out to the FWRR range some time. I was a member there for about 5-7 years and never shot in a competition once. Next weekend my baby boy is getting baptised so my wife will be in crazy get stuff done mode. I'll ask but no promises.

40 shot prone match sounds nice. Any restrictions on the firearms? Bolt, AR, Garand, anything?

 

[sloughfoot]

As long as you are there, I don't care what you choose to shoot.

No excuses, just be there at 0830. You want to be squadded with me? Or with a real Marine shooter?

 

[teddy12b]

As long as you are there, I don't care what you choose to shoot.

No excuses, just be there at 0830. You want to be squadded with me? Or with a real Marine shooter?

LOL, last I was out there, there was a marine who was on their shooting team getting setup the same time I was. A groundhog popped up at 300 yards and he missed. Lots of Army Reserve vs Marine Reserve ribbing after missing a ground hog at 300 with a tricked out AR and match ammo. Mostly me just giving him a hard time.

How long do these matches last?

 

[sloughfoot]

LOL, last I was out there, there was a marine who was on their shooting team getting setup the same time I was. A groundhog popped up at 300 yards and he missed. Lots of Army Reserve vs Marine Reserve ribbing after missing a ground hog at 300 with a tricked out AR and match ammo. Mostly me just giving him a hard time.

How long do these matches last?

First shot just after colors at 0900. We should be done by 1400. I am serious, let get squadded together.

Dean

 

[sloughfoot]

I just realized that next Saturday is CMP Rimfire Sporter at 25 and 50 yards.

The 40 shot highpower prone match is the Saturday after.

That just makes two rifle matches for you to show up for...


Schedule here....Fort Wayne Rifle & Revolver Gun Club... Home

 

[teddy12b]

Well I talked with my wife about next saturday and she has a baby shower for one of her best college friends so my chances are slim to none, but there issue a glimmer of hope. I'll let you know.

 

[micsonit]

I have had no problems with mine. One of the guys that I shoot with has 3 of them and one is from the late 90's and has had no issues with it.

 

[loony1]

most are gtg

 

[foszoe]

No AR is Mil Spec unless it can fire in 3 round bursts or full automatic.

 

[mvician]

No AR is Mil Spec unless it can fire in 3 round bursts or full automatic.

picky, picky, picky

 

[lucky4034]

Im not sure how "Mil-Spec" necessarily translates to higher quality?

I was in the military.... and now that I'm out and back home, I have a ton of friends who work in factories who work on production lines on military contracted projects... and I can't figure out anywhere how the term "Mil-Spec" goes hand in hand with the term "quality" The military demands a certain level of quality or reliability from their rifles, as they do a standardized set of features or dimensions, but that doesn't mean its the end all / be all.

Determining the quality of a rifle using the "Mil-spec" argument is well...baseless....

-First off... NO CIVILIAN OWNS a completely MIL-SPEC AR-15. Not legally anyway. If you did, then it would would be able to select and fire 3 round bursts or full auto (M4A1). Hell, Colt will even tell you that their civilian rifles are not technically "Mil-Spec". Someone mentioned that Mil-Spec is everything in the process... even how they are packed on pallets. Do you really think that Colt is packing Civilian rifles and having them inspected by military personnel?

-Secondly, from a $$ standpoint, the US military has some 400million guns... they decided what is "Mil-Spec" and then placed an order. They will not be paying manufactures to exceed those standards... and I can guarantee you that manufacturers won't be doing anything but finding the MOST COST EFFECTIVE way to meet those standards...not exceed them.

Its no different then then a Humvee factory/contract. It would be nice if came with an extra 10hp, but the military decided that 190hp was enough and there is no way in hell the manufacturer is gonna bother trying to make it 200hp on their dime.

The term Mil-Spec is being used in this thread as if its some kind of magical entity to which every manufacturer should strive to reach (or limit themselves to depending on which side of the spectrum it falls), when in fact, its nothing more than the military standard.

Are there manufacturers out there who are creating parts or building rifles that exceed the quality and reliability of the military standards? I sure hope so...but they aren't "Mil-Spec". Are there manufacturers whose products or parts not meet the military minimum standard... probably.

Where does DPMS fall?

But what I do know is that you can't compare something based on it being labeled by the term "Mil-Spec" alone....

If you truly want to compare DPMS to Colt, then instead of saying... "its not Mil-Spec," take each individual part and do a side by side comparison, or run some stress tests to see how it stands up, because not being "Mil-Spec" doesn't define whether something exceeds or doesn't exceed the Military Standard.

-Lastly... if you purchased a rifle that is supposedly as close to "Mil-Spec" as possible... in this case the Colt Civilan version of the M-4, then you got a Service Grade rifle... nothing more, nothing less. It's pretty much guaranteed, tried and true to be a reliable and accurate weapon system.... however, nothing is infallible. Here is a pretty comprehensive field report (a pretty good read to boot) that shows just that.... The USA’s M4 Carbine Controversy

I've never owned or shot a DPMS and I definitely haven't compared them to a Colt side by side extensively, so I can't really comment on them.... They might be trash? I just built a PSA for around $700 and I haven't had any issues after my first 1000 rounds and so far, I have no complaints. It fulfills my needs perfectly..... and while I won't be dragging it through the mud or shooting it in the middle of a sandstorm anytime soon, I'd be more than happy to shoot a bad guy breaking into my house with it.

 

[BKExpress]

I have a DPMS SASS .308 and the jury is still out. I have only 120 rounds down the tube and can get 1 MOA results so far. However, I am beginning to try more ammo options and hope to get .5 to .75 MOA. We'll see.

 

[drewtitans]

I've owned 2 and both were very reliable weapons. It's been probably 5-6 years since my last, new sets are both M&Ps. Next is a SIG 516 Russian for the 7.62x39 variant. Did DPMS not get awarded a military contract at one time or am I just completely lost here?

 

[lucky4034]

Did DPMS not get awarded a military contract at one time or am I just completely lost here?

DPMS: AR-15 Rifles, Parts and Accessories.

Actually it seems that is exactly how DPMS started out... machining parts for government made m16, m14 and m203 parts.

Then they switched focus and began advising other small machine shops on how to get government contracts, and how to establish sufficient quality control to fulfill those contracts to spec and in a timely manner.

LMAO

Furthermore....

In addition, Randy Luth holds four U.S. patents for innovative AR-15 rifle products with an additional patent pending. These weapons and patented accessories are currently in use worldwide by law enforcement agencies, military personnel and civilians including U.S. Border Patrol officers, security agencies in Iraq, the Jordanian army, America's top competitive shooters and big game hunters.

...Randy Luth seems to have not only made Mil-Spec parts, but designed them

 

[SaintsNSinners]

I love my DPMS... kinda sad Im parting parts of it... but its a great rifle...

 

[dcr465]

Mil-Spec refers to a Military Specification used by DoD to procure its items. At one point nearly everything in the world had a Mil-Spec written for it including water, Distilled. Beside giving dimensional requirements, Mil-Spec contain Acceptance Test criteria, packaging requirements, ... Generally, DoD Mil-Spec testing have been far more stringent than civilian requirements. Recent changes in DoD Acquisition Practices have allowed the use of more commerically available item.

Terribly missed used term anymore. While I own a DPMS rifle I am certain it isn't Mil-Spec since it does not have a Forward Assist.

Some I have always wondered about is Lake City ammo. Is it ammo that didn't pass DoD acceptance testing but is acceptable for civilian use???

 

[N_K_1984]

I ONLY buy Mil-Spec. ONLY! ...Mil-Spec rifles, Mil-Spec ammo, Mil-Spec parts, Mil-Spec underwear, Mil-Spec water, Mil-Spec bacon, etc.

I actually do not own a complete DPMS rifle. However, I do have a 16" AR15 built on a DPMS lower with a DPMS LPK and, randomly, a DPMS gas tube. I have put x-thousands of rounds on it, with NO issues. I don't recall if my lower receiver, parts kit, or gas tube ever layed claim to being Mil-Spec, but they have reliably taken all the abuse I've personally dished out. Because I've never had an issue, I can't answer about DPMS customer service.