Are DPMS AR's good?

[Hop]

Esrice, I think our brains are linked somehow. I need to double up the layers of tin foil in my hat. brb...

 

[esrice]

Esrice, I think our brains are linked somehow.

Now THAT'S a scary thought. . . .

 

[gunowner930]

Nope, not at all. But a high-end AR is more likely to reliably, accurately, and comfortably send that projectile in the first place. That's not to say that $599 AR = crap and $1,800 AR = perfect, it just means that its more likely to run when you need it to.

And this holds true for lots of non-gun things like cars, electronics, or tools. And like any rule, there are always a few exceptions.

I understand and agree with what you're saying. A low-end AR will not handle, feel like, or in many cases have the accuracy of a high-end AR. However, a well-maintained low-end AR with good ammo and good mags will go bang everytime, therefore I'm more than comfortable trusting my life to a low-end rifle that performs as it was intended to, provided that it is my rifle and I maintain it. I'm not saying that the DPMS is on par with some of the top performers, just that it is almost always "good enough."

 

[Titanium Man]

LOL, by the way, everyone on the internet is probably going to tell you that your safe sucks also. We just can't win.

I get the feeling a lot of people think they may just come up against a Taliban stronghold, and their weapon just won't be good enough.

Beware the AR snobs.

I guess it's what makes you happy, and your priorities.

Thanks for the comment, it's nice someone appreciates humor.

 

[esrice]

However, a well-maintained low-end AR with good ammo and good mags will go bang everytime, therefore I'm more than comfortable trusting my life to a low-end rifle that performs as it was intended to, provided that it is my rifle and I maintain it.

And I agree with this.

That was my experience with my first AR, a Bushmaster Patrolman's M4. It, much like a basic DPMS, was not built to the milspec, but it did run 100% for my purposes under my care.

Later, when I decided to build another AR I wanted to go "higher-end" so I picked Noveske. Why? Because I wanted to.

If someone on INGO is asking what others think about a specific brand of rifle I don't think they should sugarcoat their answers. However, I do think its important to first understand the OP's needs, wants, budget, and purpose, in order to give a fitting recommendation.

 

[mvician]

Mine have worked well. They are Mil-Spec.

Every AR15 that I know of is built to Mil Spec. Whether it is a lowly "standard" AR or one of the "premium" gotta have AR's. They are all Mil-Spec. Mil-spec is a drawing.

The "premium" AR's hold no special attraction to me.

Doesn't Pass Mil Spec

While yours may work well, DPMS is FAR from MilSpec, and NO, not every AR15 is MilSpec. MilSpec is much more than a drawing.

Yes I owned a DPMS, yes it ran fine, and yes I traded it off.

This thread has been good for a

 

[esrice]

I get the feeling a lot of people think they may just come up against a Taliban stronghold, and their weapon just won't be good enough.

Some of the lesser-quality brands of ARs won't even hold up to a 3-day 1,500 round carbine class without having major problems, much less actual combat. The higher-end stuff has malf'd too, but it happens less often overall. Pat Rogers is a great resource for finding out what runs and what doesn't in classes (which is the hardest most of us will ever run our guns).

Beware the AR snobs.

For every "AR snob" I can find you a "cheap gun snob" who puts down those who spend more money on their guns under the guise of it being "unnecessary". Hi-Point owners come first to mind.

 

[03A3]

I've never owned a DPMS.
I've always heard that DPMS's do not have a true 5.56 chamber, but instead have a .223 chamber.
Have any of you DPMS owners ever experianced popped primers and/or failure to extract when using true, high-pressure 5.56 ammo? If not, then how many rounds of true 5.56 ammo have you put thru your DPMS?
Also, what is the round-count for your DPMS?

 

[huskymt]

WOW, I never thought I would get such a Passionate discussionwith my question. I’m fairly sure that Igot my answer about DPMS rifles. Thankseveryone I really have enjoyed the post’s, thank god I did not ask “ who yougoing to vote for in 2012 R or D” LOL.

 

[slow1911s]

If someone on INGO is asking what others think about a specific brand of rifle I don't think they should sugarcoat their answers.

I agree. But, opinions are one thing. Making broad generalizations not based in fact is something we should also avoid.

If Mil-Spec is important to you, buy one that is. If it isn't, don't fret. If you buy a new rifle and it doesn't run, send it back and make them fix it. If you buy a used rifle and it doesn't work, find a good gunsmith. Or, sell it to someone that might only fire part of a mag through it and then make it a safe queen. Then take the cash and buy a MSTN, JP, or Clark.

 

[joe138]

I've never owned a DPMS.
I've always heard that DPMS's do not have a true 5.56 chamber, but instead have a .223 chamber.
Have any of you DPMS owners ever experianced popped primers and/or failure to extract when using true, high-pressure 5.56 ammo? If not, then how many rounds of true 5.56 ammo have you put thru your DPMS?
Also, what is the round-count for your DPMS?

A few years ago I was in Boone Co. for a Pat Rogers carbine class. There were several officers there from a city tac. team that had recently received a DPMS version of the M4 (I don't know the model number). For the first morning the carbines functioned. In the afternoon they, as in each one, started having problems like those listed above.This happened as the tempo of the class increased. Pat Rogers and his AI,s Mike and Mark Hueser reamed the chambers on each carbine and I believe also staked each one (with Ned Christianson's tool) to help the guns function.
You can find Pat Rogers description of this on various forums, like Lightfighter.

 

[JDvader]

For every "AR snob" I can find you a "cheap gun snob" who puts down those who spend more money on their guns under the guise of it being "unnecessary". Hi-Point owners come first to mind. [/QUOTE]


I cant wait for Hi-Point to make an AR!!! Will they be $249.99, and rattle when you shake them

 

[03A3]

A few years ago I was in Boone Co. for a Pat Rogers carbine class. There were several officers there from a city tac. team that had recently received a DPMS version of the M4 (I don't know the model number). For the first morning the carbines functioned. In the afternoon they, as in each one, started having problems like those listed above.This happened as the tempo of the class increased. Pat Rogers and his AI,s Mike and Mark Hueser reamed the chambers on each carbine and I believe also staked each one (with Ned Christianson's tool) to help the guns function.
You can find Pat Rogers description of this on various forums, like Lightfighter.

Joe that's what I'm looking for. That is far from the first time that same type of thing has been said. Have any of you DPMS owners had similar happen?
I don't really care what kind of an AR someone has. But I want one that will reliably handle any reasonable type of ammo that might be available, and under a heavy rate of fire if need be.
I looked up the prices of various DPMS models, and I must say that if I wanted an AR, and especially if it were going to be my only AR, I would save up a little longer and buy one that was assembled properly, with a true 5.56 chamber, with better material and much better QC.
There are alot of choices that meet this criteria. And you don't have to spend $1,000.00 to do it either.
There is the famous Chart that will tell you what you need to know about an M4-type rifle. Some manufacturers chose to not supply info for the chart. There is a reason for that. It's like bringing home a bad report card and not wanting your parents to see it.
And some people say that the chart only applies to an M4-type rifle. Really? If Company X won't build a proper M4-type rifle, do you think that they build other AR variations to a higher standard? Nope. Same deal.
Added : To me not having 1/7 twist is not a complete deal breaker. It will stabilize 62 grain bullets, and most of us will not be using a heavier bullet.
But having 1/8, or the common 1/7 does give you more options if the need ever arises.

 

[teddy12b]

But I want one that will reliably handle any reasonable type of ammo that might be available, and under a heavy rate of fire if need be.

If that's the case then cross DPMS off the list. DPMS makes a fine rifle for casual shooting and enjoying the sport. They don't take the extra steps of quality to make the rifle something you would want to bet a life on if theres a better option for that within the same price range. The holy grail of ARs is the colt 6920 and its the one all others are judged by. It can be had for less than $1k about the same as that DPMS recon.

 

[esrice]

I agree. But, opinions are one thing. Making broad generalizations not based in fact is something we should also avoid.

I'm pretty sure my broad generalization was based in fact. You'll note that in my first post in this thread:

"Milspec" is a set of specifications. Some rifles meet or exceed the specifications, some don't. DPMS mostly doesn't.

The link you provided then confirmed my broad generalization that "DPMS mostly doesn't [meet the milspec]". They can and have the ability to, but they mostly don't.

 

[sloughfoot]

Fer cryin out loud. I give up. You have not convinced me that my rifles and thousands of other rifles that you guys call inferior and substandard and less than mil-spec should be discarded and walked away from.

I remember when the only AR you could buy was a Colt. Then Bushmaster and then DPMS came on the scene. They had to prove themselves and did. Then RRA and Armalite came on the scene and they had to prove themselves. They did too. Now these other new guys, LMT, Noveske, Daniel Defense, and all the others that don't come directly to mind, are on the market.

I shoot several mix and match AR's. I am surrounded by dozens of what you guys call "low quality" AR's at every match I attend.

Heck the Marine and the Army Rifle teams use the Bushmaster and RRA rifles for their competition teams.


See ya, I am out of here.

 

[esrice]

Fer cryin out loud. I give up. You have not convinced me that my rifles and thousands of other rifles that you guys call inferior and substandard and less than mil-spec should be discarded and walked away from.

The point was that DPMS doesn't generally build to milspec (as you stated they did). Whether or not milspec equals better is an entirely different conversation. No one is saying that your rifles are garbage.

You mention matches. My guess is that most ARs that shoot matches of various sorts are not milspec. In fact in many cases I'm guessing they are built superior to the milspec in order to squeeze out every last ounce of accuracy. Milspec standards are more about reliability than they are accuracy.

Different purpose = different rifle. It sounds like you're matching your rifles to your purpose, which is how its supposed to work. Someone mentioned JP and Clark rifles above. Those are most definitely not built to the milspec standard and yet are considered quite "high-end" in their own world.

People sometimes forget that The Chart (which deals with the milspec) is specifically about M4-pattern rifles, and has nothing to do with long-range tac drivers, competition rigs, or hunting rifles. Just because a company scores low with their M4 doesn't mean ALL of their other offerings are garbage.

 

[lovemachine]

Curious. When one says they wouldn't trust their life with a non-milspec rifle, what do they mean by this?

Trusting their life in a war/battle situation? Or as a home defense type of thing?

 

[mvician]

Fer cryin out loud. I give up.


See ya, I am out of here.

What Evan said.........

 

[esrice]

Curious. When one says they wouldn't trust their life with a non-milspec rifle, what do they mean by this?

Trusting their life in a war/battle situation? Or as a home defense type of thing?

Well now I guess that all depends on if they're a soldier or home owner, eh?

If its me saying "I wouldn't trust my life to this rifle" I mean that I wouldn't trust in its ability to run reliably at the worst possible moment I might need it in a self-defense situation. I'd be looking for a rifle manufacturer with the least number of failures overall in an effort to stack the odds in my favor. Things like pinpoint accuracy at 500 yards are less important for my purpose.