AR15: Major Keyholing Issues

[BGDave]

Do the old fashion hoppes #9 bore brush and patch. See if the patch comes out green.

 

[turnerdye1]

How do you clean your barrel?
Cleaning Rod or Bore Snake?

How to Break-in a Barrel

OR NOT................

I spray some CLP down the barrel and let it sit for about 10min and then i run the bore snake through it 3 or 4 times then run a dry patch down it.

Do the old fashion hoppes #9 bore brush and patch. See if the patch comes out green.

I dont have any hoppes #9 on me at the moment but i will get some possibly. Is green good or bad? What does that mean if it comes out green?

 

[IndyGunworks]

if for some reason you swap barrels i would love to have this one to practice threading on

 

[turnerdye1]

if for some reason you swap barrels i would love to have this one to practice threading on

im gonna try to avoid that at all costs lol but if for some reason i do ill sell it to you for a reasonalbe price or for a bit of smithing work

 

[Thumper]

Looks like they put 5.45 bullets in a 5.56 case.I know it sounds impossable but stranger things happen.

 

[turnerdye1]

Looks like they put 5.45 bullets in a 5.56 case.I know it sounds impossable but stranger things happen.

Why would this happen on only these 3 mags though? Ive never had a problem up until now

 

[BGDave]

Green would be copper fouling. I know CLP stands for clean lube protect. But it is not really a good copper solvent. (Jackets of bullets aren't really copper) but an amalgam. Generally referred to as copper.

 

[Cerberus]

Looks like they put 5.45 bullets in a 5.56 case.I know it sounds impossable but stranger things happen.

This would be my guess, and the most probable. The size difference is minimal enough to get past machine operators, but enough to 'bounce' down the barrel.

 

[obijohn]

Before you make any major changes to your barrel or ammo, thoroughly clean your bolt and carrier. Make sure your seal rings are doing their job. Had this issue a few years ago in my open division rifle. Match before was a half inch gun. At the Tennessee State tactical 3gun match the next month, keyholing started to appear. the next match, a local three gun, the gun wouldn't even run. found the seal rings stuck in the groove and not sealing. Cleaned the bolt. The rifle went back to being a half inch gun.

 

[IndyGunworks]

Before you make any major changes to your barrel or ammo, thoroughly clean your bolt and carrier. Make sure your seal rings are doing their job. Had this issue a few years ago in my open division rifle. Match before was a half inch gun. At the Tennessee State tactical 3gun match the next month, keyholing started to appear. the next match, a local three gun, the gun wouldn't even run. found the seal rings stuck in the groove and not sealing. Cleaned the bolt. The rifle went back to being a half inch gun.

i just have a hard time understanding how stickey gas rings could cause keyholing

 

[sloughfoot]

i just have a hard time understanding how stickey gas rings could cause keyholing

Me too. This whole thread has me scratching my head.

A 1X7 223 barrel stabilizes everything. I have never seen a dirty barrel cause keyholing. Never a dinged muzzle. Certainly never a magazine.

You could always measure your bullets to see if they are undersize, but I don't see how that could cause keyholing either.

Something is happening that is a mystery to me.

 

[Panama]

Bad ammo or bad barrel, my guess and my

 

[Leo]

Clean your rifle and try some quality ammo. Unless a barrel is blown up (as in pieces) I have never seen a barrel fail and throw key holes all at once, wear is a gradual process. Once and only once, I have seen a barrel fracture a piece off right at the gas port. It did not keyhole, but the groups went from 1/2 MOA to about 3MOA, even with quality match ammo. If your rifle does will not shoot quality ammo, take it to someone with a bore scope.
Heavy winds while you were shooting will drift a bullet, but it will not keyhole unless you are far enough out to go subsonic. like maybe past 600 yards. I assume you were 150 yards or closer. Good Luck

 

[turnerdye1]

Green would be copper fouling. I know CLP stands for clean lube protect. But it is not really a good copper solvent. (Jackets of bullets aren't really copper) but an amalgam. Generally referred to as copper.

Oh that makes a lot of sense. I will go out and get some in a few days and see what it does.

This would be my guess, and the most probable. The size difference is minimal enough to get past machine operators, but enough to 'bounce' down the barrel.

But as mentioned earlier, Im not sure why it would happen now and not on the 800 rounds before hand.

Before you make any major changes to your barrel or ammo, thoroughly clean your bolt and carrier. Make sure your seal rings are doing their job. Had this issue a few years ago in my open division rifle. Match before was a half inch gun. At the Tennessee State tactical 3gun match the next month, keyholing started to appear. the next match, a local three gun, the gun wouldn't even run. found the seal rings stuck in the groove and not sealing. Cleaned the bolt. The rifle went back to being a half inch gun.

I just went and double checked my rings and they look fine. Im hoping the cleaning i gave them will fix this problem. I dont really wanna get another up or swap out barrels. Im gonna try to get to the range soon and see how it does. The rings after being cleaned are able to spin pretty easily.

i just have a hard time understanding how stickey gas rings could cause keyholing

I just hope he's right! I want my gun to work properly again lol

 

[Mr.JAG]

Look, the easiest thing to rule out is the ammo.

Go grab a box of quality factory loads by a reputable company (we are not considering steel cased Russian ammo *reputable* for this experiment).

A different brand of ammo, key-holing or not, will tell you LOADS more than any internet gun-nut's suggestion can at this point. Otherwise, you are just guessing... and whatever you decide to try is going to cost more than trying different ammo first (which is really NO COST because you always need more ammo anyways).

Yes, I heard you claim you've never had a problem before with the ammo you are using - multiple times actually. Same lot or not, the ammunition is the most likely culprit at this juncture. After all, the Russians are not known for their precision or attention to detail.

 

[DRob]

Thinking "out loud"

I think you need to go back to a starting point and work forward. I'd start by using a good copper solvent as many times as it takes to make sure that barrel isn't coppered badly. If you've put 1K rounds down the tube and only cleaned it with CLP, I'll bet it's heavily coppered. If there's a copper solvent out there that will work in 10 minutes, I'd like to know about it. After cleaning with Butch's Bore Shine and lots of brush strokes, I use Wipe-Out and let it sit for at least an hour, sometimes several applications for several hours each depending on what I see on patches afterward. Most bores will look shiney once you get the loose residue out and I'll bet that's all CLP is doing beside leaving a layer of lubricant for you to admire. Also check the muzzle crown. Gently stick a Q-tip halfway (half the swab) in the muzzle and slowly twist it. If there's a burr or something there, it should catch some cotton.

Once you're 100% sure the barrel is free of copper (no colors on the patches), try a different brand of ammo. If it shoots OK, try the same old stuff. If none of that works, that barrel can always be used for a 'mater stake!

 

[pinshooter45]

Looks like they put 5.45 bullets in a 5.56 case.I know it sounds impossable but stranger things happen.

You are Correct Comrade, we had lots of surplus bullets lying around and we did not think you Imperialist Americans would even notice.

 

[Rob377]

Me too. This whole thread has me scratching my head.

A 1X7 223 barrel stabilizes everything. I have never seen a dirty barrel cause keyholing. Never a dinged muzzle. Certainly never a magazine.

You could always measure your bullets to see if they are undersize, but I don't see how that could cause keyholing either.

Something is happening that is a mystery to me.

5.45 bullets, with a cold barrel are just barely engaging rifling, as barrel warns up, less and less engagement, less spin> unstable bullets.

Based on the OPs description, the problem got worse as the gun warmed up.

That's my SWAG, anyway.

Mic the bullets. If they come up .220-.222, then the 5.45 hypothesis is likely the correct one.

 

[Cerberus]

But as mentioned earlier, Im not sure why it would happen now and not on the 800 rounds before hand.

Because sometimes on a production line mistakes happen. A worker grabs a box of 5.45 (.221) bullets and they get loaded into .223 casings. Every box loaded until those used are used up are wrong, and they end up filling up a case that previously used correct .223 bullets. Snafus happen often enough. Every instance of key holing I've ever witnessed has been a case of bullets undersized for the barrel.

 

[sloughfoot]

Because sometimes on a production line mistakes happen. A worker grabs a box of 5.45 (.221) bullets and they get loaded into .223 casings. Every box loaded until those used are used up are wrong, and they end up filling up a case that previously used correct .223 bullets. Snafus happen often enough. Every instance of key holing I've ever witnessed has been a case of bullets undersized for the barrel.

I never say never but, how does a .221 bullet stay in a case that is sized for a .223 bullet? There has to be neck tension to keep the bullet in the case.