AR-15 vs. M1 Carbine - Opinions Wanted!

[DoggyDaddy]

Lots of good info here guys.

223 Gunner, the Mini-14 did cross my mind, or maybe even the mini-30. I suppose the mags for the mini-30 are just as hard if not harder to find, but I do like the looks of both guns, and either would allow me to keep me from having to add an additional caliber (although if I get rid of the AR, the ammo would go too, so adding .30 instead would be a wash). I think though, that I would still want the M1 over these two. I don't mean that in a disparaging way at all. My reasoning is basically the same as why I want a USGI vs. a reproduction - just for history's sake. Thank you for confirming the 800 dollar figure too - that helps, and it's what I was hoping to hear.

Cerberus - as for replacing the furniture on the AR with a wood set, again - same deal as above. Good suggestion though!

JTScribe, as I mentioned, the ammo cost and availability were two of my original stumbling blocks when considering an M1, but with what has happened to the price (and to some degree the availability) of 5.56/.223, they're pretty even now. I've not seen any brass cased ammo for the AR that's south of 50 cents/round once shipping is figured in. Also if I could get a decent supply (at least 1K rounds) of brass-cased .30, I'd be happy, AND if I get off my butt and am diligent about reloading, that would probably last me quite awhile. With my supply of .223/5.56 I think I'll be able to sell/buy/trade into an adequate supply of .30.

Flightsimmer and GunSlinger - you guys make some pretty convincing arguments for the M1. I wouldn't have a problem with a mix-master re-arsenal rifle. I know with my budget I'm not going to find some rare mint condition all-original rifle. I do wish the CMP still had the carbines in good supply. I have looked at some of the auction prices and they've all been out of my price range.

I've looked at both the rifles from the classifieds here and both are appealing, but neither of the sellers are interested in trading for an AR. Of course that's probably going to be the rule rather than the exception, in which case I'll have to sell the AR outright. I think the stars would have to be aligned just right for me to find someone that has a rifle/ammo package that would be a dead even trade! If I do end up selling it first, I might have to give DoggyMama the money and tell her not to give it back until I find the M1 I want. I just know how I am when I get money in my hot little hands. Oooh look! Something shiny!

 

[flightsimmer]

Okay, I know I'm going to sound like a real dick but...

Why would you spend three times as much on the mount than you did for the optic?

Oddly enough my Aimpoint PRO wouldn't fit on it, the mounting knob hit the rail and wouldn't let it set level and the only other red dot I had at the time was the NcStar and it fit fine.
But beleive it or not the 45mm NcStar has done a fine job so far.

 

[roadrunner681]

Lots of good info here guys.

223 Gunner, the Mini-14 did cross my mind, or maybe even the mini-30. I suppose the mags for the mini-30 are just as hard if not harder to find, but I do like the looks of both guns, and either would allow me to keep me from having to add an additional caliber (although if I get rid of the AR, the ammo would go too, so adding .30 instead would be a wash). I think though, that I would still want the M1 over these two. I don't mean that in a disparaging way at all. My reasoning is basically the same as why I want a USGI vs. a reproduction - just for history's sake. Thank you for confirming the 800 dollar figure too - that helps, and it's what I was hoping to hear.

Cerberus - as for replacing the furniture on the AR with a wood set, again - same deal as above. Good suggestion though!

JTScribe, as I mentioned, the ammo cost and availability were two of my original stumbling blocks when considering an M1, but with what has happened to the price (and to some degree the availability) of 5.56/.223, they're pretty even now. I've not seen any brass cased ammo for the AR that's south of 50 cents/round once shipping is figured in. Also if I could get a decent supply (at least 1K rounds) of brass-cased .30, I'd be happy, AND if I get off my butt and am diligent about reloading, that would probably last me quite awhile. With my supply of .223/5.56 I think I'll be able to sell/buy/trade into an adequate supply of .30.

Flightsimmer and GunSlinger - you guys make some pretty convincing arguments for the M1. I wouldn't have a problem with a mix-master re-arsenal rifle. I know with my budget I'm not going to find some rare mint condition all-original rifle. I do wish the CMP still had the carbines in good supply. I have looked at some of the auction prices and they've all been out of my price range.

I've looked at both the rifles from the classifieds here and both are appealing, but neither of the sellers are interested in trading for an AR. Of course that's probably going to be the rule rather than the exception, in which case I'll have to sell the AR outright. I think the stars would have to be aligned just right for me to find someone that has a rifle/ammo package that would be a dead even trade! If I do end up selling it first, I might have to give DoggyMama the money and tell her not to give it back until I find the M1 I want. I just know how I am when I get money in my hot little hands. Oooh look! Something shiny!

i got to shoot a mini 30, i thought the gun was kick A**, i would recommend one in a heart beat, you have the same issue i have right now, ar 15 or ptr 91?

 

[cosermann]

... I've never really warmed up to "plastic guns". ...

Then just put wood furniture on it. Problem solved!

 

[cosermann]

... I've never really warmed up to "plastic guns". ...

Then just put wood furniture on it. Problem solved!
The AR is no more a "plastic gun," than is a M1 Carbine with composite furniture.

(Click the pic below!)
View attachment 20325

Get whatever floats your boat (s long as you're comfortable with the limitations of the M1 carbine and it meets your needs).

 

[Leo]

The M1 is a fun little rifle, but as noted it is basically a pistol cartridge and has the accuracy of a pistol cartridge. It's accuracy is about like a really good long barreled revolver. Even a short barreled AR can be accurate to 300 yards. I only shot a few M1 Carbines and the best one was really challenging past 100 yards. If your shooting is close in it should not be a problem.

 

[flightsimmer]

The M1 is a fun little rifle, but as noted it is basically a pistol cartridge and has the accuracy of a pistol cartridge. It's accuracy is about like a really good long barreled revolver. Even a short barreled AR can be accurate to 300 yards. I only shot a few M1 Carbines and the best one was really challenging past 100 yards. If your shooting is close in it should not be a problem.

You know I wondered how good of accuracy I could get out of mine so I mounted a 2x7x32 scope on it, used some Tula ammo at 25 yards on sand bags and got 10 shots in 5/8ths inches. That translates to about 7.5 inches at 300yrds if I figured it right. Not bad in my book even if it was twice that.
If I need longer range I'll use the M-21 or the AR-15.
You know that wood on that AR looks really nice but how much weight does it add?

 

[indy1919a4]

Seems to me there are 3 paths


You Do not like your ar-15 and want to get rid of it, It brings you no Joy any more.. (You've lost that loving feelling).

---- Then this is easy, get rid of the thing, this gun safe eyesore...
.


You kinda want to keep your ar 15 but you want am M1 carbine now bad and will want to sell one to get another

------- Maybe this is just an infatuation that you will wake up months later and say My God what have I done with my life


Or you may stop buying up all the damn Mausers you see and if you leave some for the rest of us and maybe in a few months you would have enough for an M1 and then you can keep your AR and have an m1 also

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Seems to me there are 3 paths


You Do not like your ar-15 and want to get rid of it, It brings you no Joy any more.. (You've lost that loving feelling).

---- Then this is easy, get rid of the thing, this gun safe eyesore...
.


You kinda want to keep your ar 15 but you want am M1 carbine now bad and will want to sell one to get another

------- Maybe this is just an infatuation that you will wake up months later and say My God what have I done with my life


Or you may stop buying up all the damn Mausers you see and if you leave some for the rest of us and maybe in a few months you would have enough for an M1 and then you can keep your AR and have an m1 also

I know, I know... it's a weakness I have!

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Then just put wood furniture on it. Problem solved!
The AR is no more a "plastic gun," than is a M1 Carbine with composite furniture.

(Click the pic below!)
View attachment 20325

Get whatever floats your boat (s long as you're comfortable with the limitations of the M1 carbine and it meets your needs).

I think I've pretty much decided that I want the M1 carbine. And composite stock on an M1?? Blasphemy I tell ya!! I do appreciate all the input I've gotten here, and I have given it a lot of thought and I just think I'll be happier with the M1. I know it has limitations, but as I mentioned, if I need to shoot something farther away than 300 yards, I have other rifles for that job. It seems to me that I have this expensive (to me - not really expensive compared to what some people have in their AR's) rifle that I don't really enjoy, so why not use that "currency" for something that I will enjoy and have wanted for awhile? I've developed into a diehard milsurp fan, and the M1 will suit me in that regard. That rifle in your pic IS a good looking weapon, no doubt about that though!

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Okay, so now that my decision has been made, I have some more questions. What are some good "brands" or variants that I should keep an eye out for? Inland, Saginaw, Plainfield? Are there some that are to be avoided? Since in all likelihood, I'm going to be looking at a mix-master, any tips there? I know the usual will apply - good bore, little or no surface rust or pitting, smooth function to the action, etc.. What about mags? Any to avoid or to look for? USGI vs. aftermarket?

 

[flightsimmer]

Okay, so now that my decision has been made, I have some more questions. What are some good "brands" or variants that I should keep an eye out for? Inland, Saginaw, Plainfield? Are there some that are to be avoided? Since in all likelihood, I'm going to be looking at a mix-master, any tips there? I know the usual will apply - good bore, little or no surface rust or pitting, smooth function to the action, etc.. What about mags? Any to avoid or to look for? USGI vs. aftermarket?

IAI, Israel Arms International has some good ones if you can find one. Israel Arms International
Fulton Armory also has some good ones I beleive. Fulton Armory | M1 Carbine
Enjoy your shopping.

 

[03A3]

Okay, so now that my decision has been made, I have some more questions. What are some good "brands" or variants that I should keep an eye out for? Inland, Saginaw, Plainfield? Are there some that are to be avoided? Since in all likelihood, I'm going to be looking at a mix-master, any tips there? I know the usual will apply - good bore, little or no surface rust or pitting, smooth function to the action, etc.. What about mags? Any to avoid or to look for? USGI vs. aftermarket?

What little M1 carbine experience I have is with the USGI versions so no firsthand experience with the aftermarket guns.
When looking at one try to determine if the tab on the op rod is badly worn and or the track (groove) in the receiver that the op rod tab runs in.
Also look at the bolt lugs and the.......too early to remember the proper term.....the recesses in the receiver that the bolt lugs lock into.... for deformation, or a crack where the square bolt lug meets the body of the bolt.
Look for battering on the tail end of the bolt.
Check the trigger group for any obvious problems such as a cracked housing, worn pin holes, or the t-shaped part at the top/rear of the housing that connect to the receiver for being bent/broken.
Look for a cracked gas block (at the gas piston area) The gas piston should move freely. And you will find them sometimes with the gas piston nut partially backed out/unscrewed.
There are grooves on what is basically the gas block that the op rod rides in. They can be worn, and/or the op rod itself where it runs in these grooves.
Replacing old springs in an old gun is part of shooting something like an M1 Carbine. Springs are relatively cheap. You can get brand new USGI parts from several sources.
The Carbine bolt is really difficult to disassemble/reassemble without the US issued bolt tool. The bolt tool can be broken if not used properly.
And parts like the extractor plunger are small and easily lost so it's a good idea to keep extras onhand.
A spare set of springs and bolt guts with extra extractor plungers are handy to have if you need to make repairs.
I've had good luck with the Korean 30 round magazines.
There are beuacoup different USGI manufacturers, parts contractors/subcontractors/updated bolts, slides, sight, safeties ect ect ect as production was put into high gear and improved parts variations introduced during and after the production of the rifles to the point it will make you dizzy trying to sort it all out. It's interesting but overwhelming. I just shoot the guns and work on them when it's needed and I'm satisfied with that.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

IAI, Israel Arms International has some good ones if you can find one. Israel Arms International
Fulton Armory also has some good ones I beleive. Fulton Armory | M1 Carbine
Enjoy your shopping.

Well, while they look very nice, those Fulton Armory rifles are out of my price range. The IAI's look good too though, and they are in my price range. I wonder if they'd be C&R eligible though, since they've been remanufactured?

 

[DoggyDaddy]

What little M1 carbine experience I have is with the USGI versions so no firsthand experience with the aftermarket guns.
When looking at one try to determine if the tab on the op rod is badly worn and or the track (groove) in the receiver that the op rod tab runs in.
Also look at the bolt lugs and the.......too early to remember the proper term.....the recesses in the receiver that the bolt lugs lock into.... for deformation, or a crack where the square bolt lug meets the body of the bolt.
Look for battering on the tail end of the bolt.
Check the trigger group for any obvious problems such as a cracked housing, worn pin holes, or the t-shaped part at the top/rear of the housing that connect to the receiver for being bent/broken.
Look for a cracked gas block (at the gas piston area) The gas piston should move freely. And you will find them sometimes with the gas piston nut partially backed out/unscrewed.
There are grooves on what is basically the gas block that the op rod rides in. They can be worn, and/or the op rod itself where it runs in these grooves.
Replacing old springs in an old gun is part of shooting something like an M1 Carbine. Springs are relatively cheap. You can get brand new USGI parts from several sources.
The Carbine bolt is really difficult to disassemble/reassemble without the US issued bolt tool. The bolt tool can be broken if not used properly.
And parts like the extractor plunger are small and easily lost so it's a good idea to keep extras onhand.
A spare set of springs and bolt guts with extra extractor plungers are handy to have if you need to make repairs.
I've had good luck with the Korean 30 round magazines.
There are beuacoup different USGI manufacturers, parts contractors/subcontractors/updated bolts, slides, sight, safeties ect ect ect as production was put into high gear and improved parts variations introduced during and after the production of the rifles to the point it will make you dizzy trying to sort it all out. It's interesting but overwhelming. I just shoot the guns and work on them when it's needed and I'm satisfied with that.

Wow... that's a lot to chew on! I don't know for sure that I'd be able to disassemble any prospective rifle to do a thorough inspection, so some of these things I'm guessing wouldn't be obvious, but I can certainly check the things that are. Thanks for that info!

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

DD, have you checked out the one(s) for sale in the classifieds here?

 

[DoggyDaddy]

DD, have you checked out the one(s) for sale in the classifieds here?

I did... the Inland Steel looked very nice, but it's sold. The Winchester has a little too much "character" for me though. I'm sure it's a fine rifle, but I think I can do better aesthetically speaking. Just traded all my 5.56/.223 (2045 rounds) for 2000 rounds of .30 carbine this morning. No turning back now! Now I just need to put my AR in the classifieds.

 

[mayor al]

Guys, My experience with the Carbine (M-2) goes back to the early 60's when I was issued one upon arrival at Bien Hoa, RVN for a 3 month TDY. I fired a couple of hundred rounds in the familiarization course, then qualified as 'Expert' on that gun...using both semi and full auto capabilities. It was lots of fun to shoot on the 100 meter range at stationary paper targets and flip-ups...But it was not worth a Damn when we took it out for walks in the woods. The least bit of crud could cause a stoppage...or dirty ammo. If it jammed in full-auto mode it was tough to get it cleared safely... just when a quick clearing was needed most.

I traded it as soon as I could for an old 1897 trench shotgun, and had my Dad ship me 200 rounds of slugs for it (rather than use the G I Buckshot) and was happy as a Pig in Poop at what that bush-buster would do when it was fired.

I have owned 2 Post-war M1 Carbines since. They are fun guns to shot...but I will NEVER trust one with my life again. If you are going to use it to protect yourself and your family....look seriously at a Ruger Mini-30 or Mini-14 (in that order... or a 12 or 20 gauge shotgun with the biggest mag capacity you can find. I have a 9-shot 12 ga S&W 3000 pump gun that is a backup to my Saiga with 5 Ten Round Stick Mags ready to go. Those are my 'fun-shooters'.

Good luck with the nostalgia feelings. But don't bet your life on them.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Guys, My experience with the Carbine (M-2) goes back to the early 60's when I was issued one upon arrival at Bien Hoa, RVN for a 3 month TDY. I fired a couple of hundred rounds in the familiarization course, then qualified as 'Expert' on that gun...using both semi and full auto capabilities. It was lots of fun to shoot on the 100 meter range at stationary paper targets and flip-ups...But it was not worth a Damn when we took it out for walks in the woods. The least bit of crud could cause a stoppage...or dirty ammo. If it jammed in full-auto mode it was tough to get it cleared safely... just when a quick clearing was needed most.

I traded it as soon as I could for an old 1897 trench shotgun, and had my Dad ship me 200 rounds of slugs for it (rather than use the G I Buckshot) and was happy as a Pig in Poop at what that bush-buster would do when it was fired.

I have owned 2 Post-war M1 Carbines since. They are fun guns to shot...but I will NEVER trust one with my life again. If you are going to use it to protect yourself and your family....look seriously at a Ruger Mini-30 or Mini-14 (in that order... or a 12 or 20 gauge shotgun with the biggest mag capacity you can find. I have a 9-shot 12 ga S&W 3000 pump gun that is a backup to my Saiga with 5 Ten Round Stick Mags ready to go. Those are my 'fun-shooters'.

Good luck with the nostalgia feelings. But don't bet your life on them.

Thanks for that (and your service!) This is just going to be a fun gun primarily. I've got a HD shotgun, various handguns and an AK for the serious stuff. It does surprise me to hear your experience though. With as many as they issued, and for as long as they were in service, I would have thought that this type of story would have been a common one if the rifles were bunk. Do you think it's possible that the problem was due to it being select fire, rather than purely semi-auto?

 

[mayor al]

D D

Yeah, We carried on Full Auto when out in the Boonies. The Carbines we had were Korean War Re-issues and probably were built in WW II. Plus I was a Teenager in uniform, and not the most detail-oriented G I at the time. On semi-auto they did ok.