Apple Won't Create 'Backdoor' to Help FBI Access San Bernardino Shooter's iPhone

[Jludo]

I'm 100% against blanket warrants, but if there's a means of legally obtaining the information off one piece of evidence without compromising everyone else's security, I'm wholly in support.

And I do honestly believe that is possible.

If it's possible why hasn't it been done?

 

[halfmileharry]

I agree with you to a point Tombs. My issue really is that trusting many a'government official is difficult. Many aren't trust worthy and wouldn't stop at the letter of the law.
Others can't be trusted at all.
You can't empower without risk.
Is the risk worth the potential danger of giving the Gov this kind of power?
We've already seen they find a way to justify their actions.

 

[steveh_131]

Luckily the standard isn't what you would do if it was your own son. Sober minds have to prevail over emotion in preserving liberty as the end goal. I'd venture to guess I'd be willing to throw out the entire Constitution if one of my loved ones was in danger, does not mean we should.

Nailed it.

 

[zippy23]

but guys, this is for your safety!! its all for your safety and no one other reason...the key will be kept on secure gov't bathroom servers, snowden will have one on a thumb drive for backup and the password will be "reset" in russian. Come on guys, let find out who they called, it must have been some conservative crazy that they called that made them go full islam on their coworkers and now that everyone is dead and its over we need that key to prevent future people from buying guns through their buddies. all in the name of Bernie sanders, we need this key. We need it so bad, the NSA cant spy on phones without it....wait a second!

 

[bwframe]

Wonder how the Supreme Court will rule on this? Just a little something to consider...

 

[Tombs]

If it's possible why hasn't it been done?

Political gerrymandering to try to have more power instead of only utilizing the necessary level of power. Agencies are under the impression if they beg enough they'll get more and more power, because they're spoiled with it like a bad child.

The constitution provides a means to collect that information legally. I don't believe the constitution is out dated or needs altered to effectively handle the job.

If an iphone is more secure than any other information storage medium our government has, then the government should use it for the storage of all sensitive data. If it isn't, then they're whining for powers they don't need.

I'm simply arguing that in this case, clearly, the evidence is fair game to be recovered and utilized. Not that apple needs to provide the NSA a means of stealing everyone's information.

 

[jbombelli]

Our wonderful government has eventually abused just about everything it's ever gotten, and cannot be trusted to not abuse this too. I don't care if it costs 50 million lives. They cannot and should not ever be trusted again.

 

[jwh20]

You can be sure that the NSA can crack whatever encryption is on an iPhone. But to do so would expose the fact that they can do it, so they won't. The NSA's secrets are secret!

 

[Tombs]

You can be sure that the NSA can crack whatever encryption is on an iPhone. But to do so would expose the fact that they can do it, so they won't. The NSA's secrets are secret!

Their equipment only works on conservative suspects, when operating jointly with the IRS.

 

[wagyu52]

You can be sure that the NSA can crack whatever encryption is on an iPhone. But to do so would expose the fact that they can do it, so they won't. The NSA's secrets are secret!

Guy on the radio today say the exact same thing, the NSA doesn't want to tip their hand on what they can do with this being so public. It's not worth letting out that secret.

 

[Leadeye]

Apple is a business, the FBI is a part of government, after a lot of posturing a deal will be cut. We'll just never hear about it.

 

[17 squirrel]

Guy on the radio today say the exact same thing, the NSA doesn't want to tip their hand on what they can do with this being so public. It's not worth letting out that secret.

Yep. I truly find it hard to believe that the cryto dept at NSA Fort Meade can't walk right through a iPhone.. I don't believe it.

 

[bwframe]

Yep. I truly find it hard to believe that the cryto dept at NSA Fort Meade can't walk right through a iPhone.. I don't believe it.

The difficulty is that all their methods involve forced repetition to crack the key. Apple's security won't allow that.

So just to clarify for some folks, Facts:
Apple can't just unlock/decrypt the phone. They don't have the password/key. No one but the phone's owner knows that.
Now, the FBI could try all the possible passwords but there's a security feature built in (much like an electronic safe) where too many (10) failed attempts will wipe the phone clean.

What the FBI is asking Apple to do is to BYPASS/remove that security feature so that the phone won't wipe itself. At that point the FBI can try as many times as they need to until the phone is unlocked/decrypted. The FBI also wants Apple to create a method to bypass the touch screen entry so they don't need to have a person enter 10,000 passwords manually (was reported as a 4 digit code).

Phone records and texts are all on the carrier's systems, but the FBI is looking for data stored only on the phone itself (pictures, videos, recordings, notes, etc...).

I don't know why so many are overthinking this. Apple should just tell the FBI "We built the system to be secure. We were successful, so successful that we cannot break it either. Sorry, we don't know how to do what you ask."

 

[Shadow8088]

[video]https://youtu.be/Qh2sWSVRrmo[/video]

 

[Sling10mm]

I'm 100% against blanket warrants, but if there's a means of legally obtaining the information off one piece of evidence without compromising everyone else's security, I'm wholly in support.

And I do honestly believe that is possible.

So you believe there is a way to disable the security feature on that one phone that can't be used on other phones?

Also, sure a warrant to retrieve information off of that specific phone is fine, but why should a third party be compelled to assist in that retrieval? Maybe one or more of the lawyers in here could chime in.

 

[Jludo]

You can be sure that the NSA can crack whatever encryption is on an iPhone. But to do so would expose the fact that they can do it, so they won't. The NSA's secrets are secret!

What's it hurt if we knew the NSA could crack encryption? Isn't that what we assume they're doing anyway.
For the record I don't believe the NSA can get into the iphone, It's exploiting the code, not encryption, that's in their way. It's a phone passcode so I'm sure the NSA would make short work of the encryption side of it.

 

[mrjarrell]

Google's CEO sides with Apple.

Google CEO Calls FBI's Request for Apple Backdoor 'A Troubling Precedent' - Mac Rumors

 

[BugI02]

So you believe there is a way to disable the security feature on that one phone that can't be used on other phones?

Also, sure a warrant to retrieve information off of that specific phone is fine, but why should a third party be compelled to assist in that retrieval? Maybe one or more of the lawyers in here could chime in.

Exactly. If Cameramonkey designs and builds a security system that po-po has difficulty cracking could they subpoena him and force him to crack the system for them? It is further gov't overreach. If they can't crack it themselves then we are REALLY paying them too much money

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

Luckily the standard isn't what you would do if it was your own son. Sober minds have to prevail over emotion in preserving liberty as the end goal. I'd venture to guess I'd be willing to throw out the entire Constitution if one of my loved ones was in danger, does not mean we should.

Nailed it.

I agree.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Well, you're obviously correct that this post won't bring a positive response. With all due respect, I'm going to add to that negative response: Go pound sand.

I don't care that you have a warrant for those phones. What that means is that you have permission to get into them. It's like the Ron White joke: I had the right to remain silent, but not the ability. It doesn't work with the fed programs? Waah. Boo hoo. The bottom line is that you don't know what info is in there, and thus, you're going on a fishing expedition. Based on the little information that's here, I'd say that a judge issuing a warrant of that nature should be... well, not horsewhipped, but certainly censured. Let's just suppose that the info on one of those phones includes proof that its owner enjoyed some pastime that is lawful, but also embarrassing, and would not have wanted his/her family knowing about it. Right now, they don't. You go looking in that phone, and they might, if someone reveals it.

You describe the importance of the "backdoor". It sounds like you were trying to avoid the use of the word "necessity". Might I remind you of the quote from William Pitt the Younger: Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.

I reiterate that I don't mean this in any way disrespectfully. The simple fact is that your "need" to solve a crime or the families' desires for answers do not trump an individuals rights to be secure in their persons, papers, and possessions. I wish you good fortune in the locating of the evidence you seek, so long as you do so through practices that put rights before such things as "authority" and/or "powers". We are a nation of laws, not of men, and thus, the appeal to emotion "only then will you understand.." is both null and void.

God bless and stay safe out there,
Bill

This will not be a positive response for the boards here but I'll try. Phones are the new evidence so to speak in criminal investigations. I have 4 to 6 phones sitting at our local FBI's office waiting to get dumped and I have search warrants for all of them. Most of them involves a murder and belonged to my victims. The new encryption Apple is using to secure them doesn't work with the programs the Feds use. The information in these phones often lead to suspects or give us a direction as to why the incident happened. It's easy to say that's great news and blah, blah, blah. God forbid, if its your wife, son, daughter, or loved one that is the victim, only then will you understand the importance of this backdoor. Victim's families want answers and so do we when we need to solve a crime. The info these gadgets store in incredible and whatever we think we delete can be retrieved. I've seen cases where phones have eliminated suspects in cases. Looks like .gov is going to have to attract better talent.