All hell breaking loose on the Northwest side...

[hornadylnl]

I would love to have a dash cam.

If you bought your own dash cam, would the video be admissible in court?

 

[VUPDblue]

If you bought your own dash cam, would the video be admissible in court?

Yes it would, but I would be in violation of General Orders.

 

[lovemachine]

I had a fine citizen accuse me last week, in open court, of pointing my gun in his face and saying "you are in big trouble now, boy". I would love to have dash cam video of the stop clearly showing that no such thing happened. Fortunately the judge saw through his extra-chunky bull****....

Lots of smart people in your area...

 

[Benny]

Yes it would, but I would be in violation of General Orders.

So you aren't allowed to have a dashcam?

 

[T755]

No. He cannot install it nor utilize it. Only ones that have them are the traffic safety partnership guys and I think those went away after the merger.

 

[hornadylnl]

No. He cannot install it nor utilize it. Only ones that have them are the traffic safety partnership guys and I think those went away after the merger.

To protect the LEOs or the citizenry?

 

[CHCRandy]

Yes to the bolded and highlighted portion. If the person fleeing poses a danger to the public.

From IMPD General orders:
It is the policy of this department to resort to the use of a firearm when it reasonably appears necessary in the performance of an officer’s lawful duty. An officer is approved to use a department authorized firearm in the following circumstances.

A. An officer may use deadly force when he or she has probable cause to believe that deadly force is necessary to prevent the commission of a forcible felony or reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the officer or a third person (refer to Indiana Code (IC) 35-41-3-2 and IC 35-41-3-3).

B. An officer may use deadly force to affect an arrest of a person who the officer has probable cause to believe poses a threat of serious bodily injury to the officer or a third person (refer to IC 35-41-3-2 and IC 35-41-3-3).

C. An officer may use deadly force if the officer has probable cause to believe that deadly force is necessary to prevent the escape from custody of a person who the officer has probable cause to believe poses a threat of serious bodily injury to the officer or third person, and has given a warning, if feasible, to the person against whom the deadly force is to be used (refer to IC 35-1-3-2 and IC 35-41-3-3).

Thank you. That was what I was wondering.

 

[T755]

Little of both. Part was from cars burning up from improper installed equipment. More than once a guys car caught on fire and burned his garage up etc. I know of at least one dept where a officer did wrong yet the dept couldn't proceed because it was brought up in proceedings that it was his property and the tape was under his control. That was many years ago before rules and policy was fully laid out. I have had both over the years cameras and not. Once I got used to it, It wasn't bad. When I would do a lot of investigations I would flip it on and audio talking and not mess with taking notes in front of them. Focused on things better and was handy a couple of times in court. I never got jammed up however I know of several times the media would portray a edited tape in a bad light etc when I knew there was a reason for the post encounter actions. You can argue it either way.

 

[VUPDblue]

So you aren't allowed to have a dashcam?

Nope, we are prohibited from using personally owned video recording equipment.

No. He cannot install it nor utilize it. Only ones that have them are the traffic safety partnership guys and I think those went away after the merger.

There are a few guys around that still have department-issued dash cams, but I don't know what their orders are as far as what to do with the recordings or even if they have to be working.

To protect the LEOs or the citizenry?

I don't think it went away for any reason other than there were few of them and it was just deemed unimportant at the time.


The reason we cannot use personal cameras is because there is no archive for the recordings, nor any orders dealing with when/how to use them. All that footage would have to be stored somewhere and the department doesn't have the infrastructure to do that right now. The department also has no general orders dealing with what/when to record and how long to store the recordings.

I was talking about this subject with an officer from another department while I was away at training a couple months ago. He told me that his department (~400 officers) just got issued body cameras. They are supposed to activate the cameras during any/every encounter with the public and then upload the recordings at the end of each shift. He said that the department leased storage space that they figured would store several years worth of data, but that the space was full in a matter of months and new calculations revealed that they needed almost 1000% more space for it to be effective.

 

[85t5mcss]

I'm kinda late to the party but living in that general area for 40ish years I can tell you it's not what it once was. Even 20 years ago it was rougher than the surrounding areas. Something about High School Rd, I think. From 16th to 46th seems to be like that. Georgetown and Michigan Roads are no better. Glad you all were safe at the end of the night, sucks about the innocent 10 year old.

I think I'm just North of VUPD but appreciate what he does just the same. I'm on the verge of the problem area. It is slowing growng towards me. Think I need to sell and move further out.

 

[AJBB87]

Frank_N_Stein,

How do you get to be the "PIT car"? From listening to past chases over the radio, sometimes the lead cars are asked to back off so the "PIT car" can get up there. Does that mean not any officer can PIT or what?

 

[VUPDblue]

Only PIT trained officers can perform the maneuver. A small percentage of officers are PIT trained.

 

[sig-guy]

Only PIT trained officers can perform the maneuver. A small percentage of officers are PIT trained.

Curious as to why didn't they install a push bar on the front of the vehicle to protect it from major damage? However, it looks like you kept it to a minimum!

 

[96firephoenix]

well Frank, it sounds like your job is just the PITs....

Sorry if someone made that joke already.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Curious as to why didn't they install a push bar on the front of the vehicle to protect it from major damage? However, it looks like you kept it to a minimum!

a push bar wont protect the corners. (they typically dont extend beyond the grill area)

Good job Frank!

 

[AJBB87]

Only PIT trained officers can perform the maneuver. A small percentage of officers are PIT trained.

What would happen if the lead car, not PIT trained, spun out the fleeing vehicle? Have there been any instances, that you know of, where that's happened? Any idea of the repercussions?

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Frank_N_Stein,

How do you get to be the "PIT car"? From listening to past chases over the radio, sometimes the lead cars are asked to back off so the "PIT car" can get up there. Does that mean not any officer can PIT or what?

8- hour initial training, recertification every year. The PIT car and K9 get front-of-the-line status in a chase (unless its a motorcycle, no PIT allowed).

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

What would happen if the lead car, not PIT trained, spun out the fleeing vehicle? Have there been any instances, that you know of, where that's happened? Any idea of the repercussions?

Depends on the reason for the chase. If it was a matter of life-or-death it could be deemed justified and appropriate. If it was for a traffic violation punishment could range from a verbal reprimand to recommendation for termination. I have not heard of a non-certified officer performing a PIT on IMPD.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Curious as to why didn't they install a push bar on the front of the vehicle to protect it from major damage? However, it looks like you kept it to a minimum!

No money for push bars or dashcams.

 

[sig-guy]

a push bar wont protect the corners. (they typically dont extend beyond the grill area)

A lot of the newer ones cover the complete front of the vehicle.