A combat vets argument for concealed carry not open

[Bunnykid68]

If the criminal cannot see that a person is carrying their firearm it makes them a target for mugging

 

[88GT]

Myth, huh? Its pretty basic logic actually. If someone can't see the cc they are unaware of its presence.

But the conclusion you are drawing that the opposite logical outcome of OC being seen isn't, well, logical. I've OC'd in front of dozens of people who never noticed it.

Thus, gaining the CC-er the element of suprise or ambush depending on the situation. Not sure how that is a "myth." The superstition surrounding the concept arises in the fact that there are those who doubt this would provide a tactical advantage in a real life situation.

No one is denying it has tactical merit. Some of us simply don't hold its merits quite as high as others.

None the less one only has to read real life encounters to see that most of the persons that successfully defended themselves produced a weapon that had been concealed either by clothing or by the person with the weapon being out of the line of site which accomplishes the same thing ie providing the defender with the element of suprise or ambush (see for example the old guy at the internet cafe).

Buddy, you just made an argument for OC since the only "victims" were the ones the criminals had to take a chance on.

The counter argument of course being that the situation might not have occurred at all had the perp seen the weapon and decided against engaging. This, however, is the myth--since the engagement never occurs. Then the OC-er automatically assumes that he is scaring bad guys away with every macho step.

Ah, I see you realized your own logical error and attempted to cover it with some backtracking.

Memo: Your logic is not logical. You draw fallacious conclusions from irrelevant connections. A lack of engagement is not evidence that "OCing deters crime" is a myth. Worst case scenario it's an unverifiable conclusion. Nothing more than you've got with "tactical advantage," now that I think of it.

As I said before, I think there is a time for show of force and a time for keeping your advantages to yourself. Too bad you can't know in advance which it will be.

That's your opinion. Would you care to explain why you think you should be making that decision for me?

 

[Kagnew]

Myth, huh? Its pretty basic logic actually. If someone can't see the cc they are unaware of its presence. Thus, gaining the CC-er the element of suprise or ambush depending on the situation. Not sure how that is a "myth." The superstition surrounding the concept arises in the fact that there are those who doubt this would provide a tactical advantage in a real life situation. None the less one only has to read real life encounters to see that most of the persons that successfully defended themselves produced a weapon that had been concealed either by clothing or by the person with the weapon being out of the line of site which accomplishes the same thing ie providing the defender with the element of suprise or ambush (see for example the old guy at the internet cafe).

The counter argument of course being that the situation might not have occurred at all had the perp seen the weapon and decided against engaging. This, however, is the myth--since the engagement never occurs. Then the OC-er automatically assumes that he is scaring bad guys away with every macho step.

As I said before, I think there is a time for show of force and a time for keeping your advantages to yourself. Too bad you can't know in advance which it will be.

I have pretty much ignored the cc vs oc argument in the past but I thought it might be fun to jump in on this one. Thanks for helping to make my experience enjoyable.

+1

 

[Kagnew]

Kagnew: No, I didn't. I applaud the OP for having the 'nads to buck what is obviously considered "politically correct" on this forum.

Would "prevailing sentiment" have been more to your liking?

 

[Mackey]

More ignorant ranting by someone who thinks he knows better than I do how it is I should carry. Yawn.

This is not the military this is civilian life and things work differently here: Free Will for one.

I have a question for you, why does it matter how OTHER people carry?

Yawn is right.

I don't see why we have to keep trying to stir the pot here on INGO on CC vs OC.

BECAUSE
Those entrenched on one side or the other apparently have no intention of ever changing their minds. This is not a argument in the true sense (that of debate), but it is just a fight.
I'm sick of it.

 

[blamecharles]

ViperJock I will also add to 88GT's post on people not being aware. I was talking to a lady at Speedway gas one day about her son being in my old division(4th Inf Div). After 5 minutes of conversation she went to shake my hand and only then did she notice my pistol. I had been 2 ft from her that long and she never noticed it. Depending on the color combination a lot of people don't see OC.

 

[Kagnew]

I don't see why we have to keep trying to stir the pot here on INGO on CC vs OC.

In all honesty, Mackey, I think that I'd have to agree.

 

[blamecharles]

Yawn is right.

I don't see why we have to keep trying to stir the pot here on INGO on CC vs OC.

BECAUSE
Those entrenched on one side or the other apparently have no intention of ever changing their minds. This is not a argument in the true sense (that of debate), but it is just a fight.
I'm sick of it.

Which is why I have taken to being a JFC'er.

 

[Mackey]

Which is why I have taken to being a JFC'er.

If JFC means what I think it means ... I'm for it.

 

[88GT]

Yawn is right.

I don't see why we have to keep trying to stir the pot here on INGO on CC vs OC.

BECAUSE
Those entrenched on one side or the other apparently have no intention of ever changing their minds. This is not a argument in the true sense (that of debate), but it is just a fight.
I'm sick of it.

I like 'em. But then I've got a bit of an argumentative streak in me.

Plus I like pointing out big fat flaws in logic as a past time. (Sounds like good Newlywed Game material, doesn't it?)

 

[blamecharles]

If JFC means what I think it means ... I'm for it.

It does. Middle word can be cleaned up or not that is up to you.

 

[blamecharles]

(Sounds like good Newlywed Game material, doesn't it?)

More like Springer Show in some cases.

 

[goinggreyfast]

Welcome back Jake!

Like Deja Moo--we've heard this BS before?

 

[repeter1977]

Myth, huh? Its pretty basic logic actually. If someone can't see the cc they are unaware of its presence. Thus, gaining the CC-er the element of suprise or ambush depending on the situation. Not sure how that is a "myth." The superstition surrounding the concept arises in the fact that there are those who doubt this would provide a tactical advantage in a real life situation. None the less one only has to read real life encounters to see that most of the persons that successfully defended themselves produced a weapon that had been concealed either by clothing or by the person with the weapon being out of the line of site which accomplishes the same thing ie providing the defender with the element of suprise or ambush (see for example the old guy at the internet cafe).

The counter argument of course being that the situation might not have occurred at all had the perp seen the weapon and decided against engaging. This, however, is the myth--since the engagement never occurs. Then the OC-er automatically assumes that he is scaring bad guys away with every macho step.

As I said before, I think there is a time for show of force and a time for keeping your advantages to yourself. Too bad you can't know in advance which it will be.

I have pretty much ignored the cc vs oc argument in the past but I thought it might be fun to jump in on this one. Thanks for helping to make my experience enjoyable.

There have been more then a couple cases of people that are concealed being identified as carrying firearms (tons of reasons, not comfortable, adjusting, printing, shirt slippage, always adjusting the shirt, etc). And as already pointed out, more then a couple cases of people oc'ing, having entire conversations without the person even noticing. SO, to say it some how offers some element of surprise, or ambush, is careless at best. Ambush would be you luring bad guys into the place, so they will rob it, so you can shoot them. I would HOPE that you are not advocating that. Element of surprise is entirely different. You can have a known gun, and the bad guys even see it, (like some of the security guards at banks, etc), but the element of surprise that you have is your awesome reflexes and that you have been practicing drawing for years for just this event.

 

[Mackey]

I like 'em. But then I've got a bit of an argumentative streak in me.

Plus I like pointing out big fat flaws in logic as a past time. (Sounds like good Newlywed Game material, doesn't it?)

I must admit that you do a fairly good job at poking holes in people's "logic". But for the most part, people are posting their feelings or anecdotal evidence to back up their position vs logic or empirical evidence.

 

[KG1]

I like 'em. But then I've got a bit of an argumentative streak in me.

Plus I like pointing out big fat flaws in logic as a past time. (Sounds like good Newlywed Game material, doesn't it?)

Here you go. This might come in handy for those occasions.

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

The element of surprise is an offensive tactic, not a defensive one.

 

[repeter1977]

The element of surprise is an offensive tactic, not a defensive one.

good point. Same as the ambush.

 

[Mad Anthony Wayne]

More ignorant ranting by someone who thinks he knows better than I do how it is I should carry. Yawn.

You really are a defensive and sensitive little fella aren't you?? It was a well written thought out post that reflected his viewpoint, and you take it straight to calling him ignorant. There's not enough face palm for guys like you. The way you're always flying off the handle about open carry kinda makes me think that a person with your obvious anger issues shouldn't be carrying a gun at all....now it's your turn, go ahead and make hateful and smart ass remarks about my post and prove me right :-)

 

[ddavidson]

Everyone calm down and give the OP a chance. The OP might have something weird going on...like something outside of INGO.