5 Officers shot during drug raid

[lrahm]

Yeah, I saw no mention of any drugs found, just about he was popped for roids before.

If nothing was found, could this raid be considered unlawful entry (regardless of anyone's personal views about raids)?

I can only assume that a department of only seven officers, it's not a very big city. Everyone knows what everyone is doing. I've had many conversations with officers of cities that size. When drugs effects a few in that size of city, it take a heavy toll. I can only guess without looking it up, it has to be about the size of Oakland City to the north. I guess that we will have to wait to see what was found after the investigation is completed. My experiencies with judges and search warrants in smaller cities is that they want a clear cut case before the warrant will be issued.

 

[VostocK]

I don't undestand why they feel a need for a surprise raid when they can just arrest them at Wal Mart or the gas station.

I feel it puts LEO's at risk when it isn't needed. They have risky enough occupations, so why compound the risk?

I just don't get it. Someone please enlighten me.

Its a greater risk to the public to conduct something like this is a crowded public area then it is to contain it to a single home. You'll likely also be able to get more evidence from a suspects home then you would find on him while he is out shopping.

 

[Birds Away]

There isn't enough information available to know what happened. It is pure speculation that it was steroids. For all we know the guy could have been selling crack down at the schoolyard. We have no idea what happened. There is certainly not enough information to start speaking of any misconduct. I feel very sorry for the Chief's family and friends. I pray for the speedy recovery of the wounded Officers. We do them all a disservice by offering wild speculation about these events.

 

[hornadylnl]

They're busy getting high...give them a minute...geeze.

So you are offended by trolling officer deaths after making this classless post?

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/general_political_discussion/201666-17_year_old_kid_shot_dead_by_neighborhood_watch_captain-35.html#post2776551

 

[Fletch]

For the record, I don't believe I was trolling. The whole situation is a damn shame, and could be avoided if so many weren't so anxious to tell others how to run their lives.

 

[hornadylnl]

For the record, I don't believe I was trolling. The whole situation is a damn shame, and could be avoided if so many weren't so anxious to tell others how to run their lives.

I don't think you were trolling at all. It just seems some are more sensitive to negative view of one group over another.

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

Its a greater risk to the public to conduct something like this is a crowded public area then it is to contain it to a single home. You'll likely also be able to get more evidence from a suspects home then you would find on him while he is out shopping.

I'm not advocating a swat raid at Wal Mart. They obviously have a warrant for the home. Just walk up and cuff him in the frozen food section or the parking lot then go see what's in the house.

 

[netsecurity]

Is it worth a life to stop someone from selling drugs that only drug users buy (supply and demand applies)? Definitely not.

Should police storm into someone's home with their weapons drawn over a drug offense? Probably not.

Should police be surprised if they get shot at while ramming someone's door down? No.

Only in a hostage situation, or similar, should SWAT tactics ever be used IMO. Such tactics are an escalation of the highest order of violence. There are much simpler ways to arrest someone without the risk. A SWAT team is literally a small army, using military tactics, which are not appropriate in most cases. Why couldn't they detain the guy at the market and then comb the house like everyone else has stated? I see it as total arrogance that police think they can barge into homes using such over the top ultra-aggressive tactics, and not expect to be received with aggression.

 

[netsecurity]

For the record, I don't believe I was trolling. The whole situation is a damn shame, and could be avoided if so many weren't so anxious to tell others how to run their lives.

And, yes, I agree with that! It should have just been avoided.

 

[Denny347]

Blame the drug laws? Whether or not I agree with them, we have officers dead/wounded because some scrote made the conscious decision to fight. Let us not forget that. Some here make is seem that this was a foreseeable outcome for DOING THEIR JOB! Shameful.

 

[radonc73]

I'm not advocating a swat raid at Wal Mart. They obviously have a warrant for the home. Just walk up and cuff him in the frozen food section or the parking lot then go see what's in the house.

Then they couldn't justify an APC for a force of 7!!

 

[jedi]

Sad outcome really. The whole incident remians me of this song that Rambone posted once here on INGO.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=pV7u91A3KGQ

-Jedi

 

[lrahm]

Is it worth a life to stop someone from selling drugs that only drug users buy (supply and demand applies)? Definitely not.

Should police storm into someone's home with their weapons drawn over a drug offense? Probably not.

Should police be surprised if they get shot at while ramming someone's door down? No.

Only in a hostage situation, or similar, should SWAT tactics ever be used IMO. Such tactics are an escalation of the highest order of violence. There are much simpler ways to arrest someone without the risk. A SWAT team is literally a small army, using military tactics, which are not appropriate in most cases. Why couldn't they detain the guy at the market and then comb the house like everyone else has stated? I see it as total arrogance that police think they can barge into homes using such over the top ultra-aggressive tactics, and not expect to be received with aggression.

Meth labs, should I avoid them? I've seen a few (more than a few) blow up. The results are devestating. I saw one take two other houses with it.

A small army was possibly needed in this case. One police officer died and three are still in the hospital. Not everyone wants drug dealers living in the house next to them, do you? I don't know, maybe I am just too old to understand the liberalistic views on drug usage. Maybe it's because I've had too much experience in the effects and harm it creates. Maybe it's because of all the thefts, robberies and murders created by this. The ruined lives I see each day when parents call us to cart their child off to detox are daily. I will be working off duty at a hospital tonight. My guess is that there will be at least three people I will have to chase off because they insist the doctors give them oxycontin or lortabs for their "footpain".

The answer of detaining a person in a market, not realistic. Place everyone around in danger if something goes wrong, not safe. Would you want your family around at that time.

 

[lrahm]

I apologize if I spoke to harshly to some people. It wasn't necessary. After being in law enforcement as long as I have, I probably seen too much and sometimes feel that my opinion, with what I've experienced, is correct. Each person here is entitled to their own and I should respect and expect that. Jediah and netsecsvc I apologize if I came on too strong. We lost an officer who was days away from retirement. My prayers are with him, his family and his fellow officers.

 

[jsharmon7]

Very sad, and very difficult for friends, family, and community.

As far as the raid, I don't know the background as to why they chose to do the raid. If a bunch of cops got shot though I'd guess this guy/these guys were pretty dangerous and went well-armed. I'll remember to try to arrest these folks at Walmart when you're shopping there with your family. As long as you do it out in public, these guys comply instantly and would never think of starting a shootout or pursuit in a crowded, public area. Plus, if I have their address then it makes it too easy to find them. I'd much rather follow them around all day until they get to Walmart or the gas station where there are other people who have nothing to do with the situation. A traffic stop might work, everybody enjoys a high speed chase through their neighborhood. Thanks for the tips!

 

[jedi]

Jediah and netsecsvc I apologize if I came on too strong. We lost an officer who was days away from retirement. My prayers are with him, his family and his fellow officers.

No need to apologize Irahm. At least not to me. I was NOT affended by what you said nor did/do I think you came on too strong. I can see how this event would affect you (being an LEO) more than it would affect me (a non-LEO) since the officer is a "co-worker" (ie. same line of work and I know you don't know him personally).

People die every day either due to natural causes or by actions they take. That is the way of life in the world we live in. Based on that set of parameters each of us should take our lucky stars/lady luck/GOD/budda/The GODS/The Powers Da Be/your lucky charm/etc that you woke up in the morning, can kiss/say hello to your family and go on with your day. Cause none of us our guarantted to come home tonight/wake up tomorrow/etc or see our loved ones again.

The chief kew his line of work could put him in danger more than say being an officer worker. He choose that line of work for whatever reason. As such he and his family knew the dangers that came with it. By the same token the BG chose his line of work as well and the dangers that he took/takes. So put made their choices and now both are dealing with the consequnes of those choices.

As "watchers" what can we learn from this? Could there have been a better way to handle this issue? What is the root issue? Those are questions that I don't have answers for since I have not bothered to think of the answers for them (yet) and have instead taking the approach of "Well its not my problem (ie. first the came for the .... but I was not one of them route).

LEOs have died for thousands of years just as much as BGs have. Both will continue to die for as long as mankind exists. It is the nature of the actions we as humans take.

-Jedi

 

[XMil]

Play stupid games...

 

[Bunnykid68]

I apologize if I spoke to harshly to some people. It wasn't necessary. After being in law enforcement as long as I have, I probably seen too much and sometimes feel that my opinion, with what I've experienced, is correct. Each person here is entitled to their own and I should respect and expect that. Jediah and netsecsvc I apologize if I came on too strong. We lost an officer who was days away from retirement. My prayers are with him, his family and his fellow officers.

lrahm, In a thread like this I see no need to apologize when you deal with some of the **** you have to on a daily basis. The point some are trying to make is that if you have someone violating one of ¨mans¨ law there has to be a better way to handle it then a raid, unless the guy never leaves his home. ever. Run his car over with a tank. Hell he could have had innocent family in that house that have no where else to go when it was raided. This is a tragedy for sure, but was this guy hurting anyone else? I do not know, maybe he was, but this war on drugs has gotten stupid.

 

[45fan]

I hate seeing police getting injured or killed in the line of duty over this stuff. I honestly dont have an issue if someone wants to kill themselves, and NOT affect anyone else, thats their business. Unfortunately, the side effects of illegal narcotics to a community can be, and usually are quite devastating.

 

[Bunnykid68]

I hate seeing police getting injured or killed in the line of duty over this stuff. I honestly dont have an issue if someone wants to kill themselves, and NOT affect anyone else, thats their business. Unfortunately, the side effects of illegal narcotics to a community can be, and usually are quite devastating.

Go back to the way it used to be, sell my kids something I do not think they need and I will solve that particular problem. But, I guess that does not work as well in bigger cities nowadays