4 yo boy in Merrillville shoots himself and dies.

[ModernGunner]

You're half right. You can't teach a 3-4 year old the consequences of handling a gun. Their brains can't process that. Guns need to be locked up, end of story.

Wholly and entirely disagree. I was taught about the lethality of firearms at that age, and a couple years later, at age 6 being taught to shoot (.22 lr).

While I agree with securing the guns, in my parents home they were kept in a glass door display cabinet, ammo on the shelf above. We simply didn't mess with 'em unless Dad authorized it.

If this young lad was old enough to find that firearm, he was old enough to be taught gun safety. Though, I still agree securing them is the proper duty of the parents.

Sorry, but the tragic death of this little guy was completely unnecessary, entirely preventable, and the guilt wholly and fully rests with the parents. The parents should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Maybe 20 years in a prison would help 'clarify' things for them.

My heart goes out to the 4 year old boy. I have zero sympathy or empathy for his parents. None.

Cash Irby, Jr., 4 years old. Killed by stupid parents.

 

[Darral27]

Wholly and entirely disagree. I was taught about the lethality of firearms at that age, and a couple years later, at age being taught to shoot (.22 lr) beginning at age 6.

While I agree with securing the guns, in my parents home they were kept in a glass door display cabinet, ammo on the shelf above. We simply didn't mess with 'em unless Pop authorized it.

If this young lad was old enough to find that firearm, he was old enough to be taught gun safe. Though, I still agree securing them is the proper duty of the parents.

Sorry, but the tragic death of this little guy was completely unnecessary, entirely preventable, and the guilt wholly and fully rests with the parents. The parents should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Maybe 20 years in a prison would help 'clarify' things for them.

My heart goes out to the 4 year old boy. I have zero sympathy or empathy for his parents. None.

Cash Irby, Jr., 4 years old. Killed by stupid parents.

I agree if he was old enough to climb up to get it he was old enough to have been taught not to touch it. My 5 year old knows not to touch my guns and he has known for some time. He understands the difference between his toys and my guns. My guns are either kept secured in the safe or on my hip except when I am asleep and then I keep a glock on my bedside table. Even though my son has never came in the room and grabbed it I still do not keep a round chambered.
As for the other part of your post I have to disagree. I will not cast judgement on these people because I do not know the full story. I do know that they are already being punished more than any prison sentence will ever accomplish. If it turns out they are found to have been criminally negligent they will be charged and tried. However making a statement like that is just cruel. Odds are probably slim but what if they are visitors to this site and read that statement. I do have sympathy for the parents. We all make mistakes and they must now live with knowing that theirs cost the life of their child. I could not imagine a worse punishment.

 

[Dirtebiker]

Wholly and entirely disagree. I was taught about the lethality of firearms at that age, and a couple years later, at age being taught to shoot (.22 lr) beginning at age 6.

While I agree with securing the guns, in my parents home they were kept in a glass door display cabinet, ammo on the shelf above. We simply didn't mess with 'em unless Pop authorized it.

If this young lad was old enough to find that firearm, he was old enough to be taught gun safe. Though, I still agree securing them is the proper duty of the parents.

Sorry, but the tragic death of this little guy was completely unnecessary, entirely preventable, and the guilt wholly and fully rests with the parents. The parents should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Maybe 20 years in a prison would help 'clarify' things for them.

My heart goes out to the 4 year old boy. I have zero sympathy or empathy for his parents. None.

Cash Irby, Jr., 4 years old. Killed by stupid parents.

Wow, that's cold!
do you really think 20 years in prison would be any more punishment than those parents are already going through? (And will go through for the rest of their lives!)
What do you think the parents could be convicted of?
What good would prison do?

If you really can't feel sorry for someone who just lost their child, I feel sorry for YOU!

 

[ModernGunner]

Wow, that's cold!
do you really think 20 years in prison would be any more punishment than those parents are already going through? (And will go through for heresy of their lives!)
What do you think the parents could be convicted of?
What good would prison do?

If you really can't feel sorry for someone who just lost their child, I feel sorry for YOU!

Their child, entirely innocent, died because of the parents stupidity, and for no other reason.

"Feel sorry"? Absolutely not. But for the parents own stupidity, that young lad would be alive. No one should "feel sorry" for a parent that willfully and stupidly causes their child's death. Would one "feel sorry" for someone who took a loaded handgun, pointed it at their child, and pulled the trigger? Their wanton negligence did, in essence, exactly that.

Any "more punishment"? No, it should be ADDITIONAL punishment as a result of their complete failure to act responsibly. They should derive NO 'benefit' from such wanton and reckless conduct.

What should they be convicted OF? Reckless homicide, manslaughter, child abuse, child negligence, misuse of a firearm? There's likely multiple charges they COULD be charged with, and should be charged with every crime applicable.

What good would prison do? It would get these people away from others they might harm, or cause to harm, including whatever children are still in their care, who should be immediately and permanently removed from the custody of these parents.

Does that sound 'harsh'? It's a helluva lot less 'harsh' than what happened to Cash Irby, Jr. due to the stupidity of his parents.

(From another Poster) - What if the parents read this? Well, at least they GET to do so. Cash, Jr. does NOT.

 

[churchmouse]

I think they said it was on a shelf "out of reach".

I think back to how much I needed to know what was on those shelves "Out of my reach" when I was a kid. Nothing could be hiden from me if I was curious as to what was "In/on" there.

Children are like cats.....curiosity beyond comprehension. Everything is new to them.

My heart just hurts at the thought of this.

As much as those parents have to be grieving I am sure somewhere in their minds they are aware this is totally on them.

Put-em up. I have G-kids running around my home daily. Nothing in reach. Nothing. Not even a knife.

 

[Hexlobular]

...Put-em up. I have G-kids running around my home daily. Nothing in reach. Nothing. Not even a knife.

When I was a little kid, my dad (now retired LEO) would come home and the first thing he would do was unload his revolver. He explained to me the dangers of firearms, and he'd religiously line up the six bullets on his dresser with his keys and change to verify there were six. Even then, he would still put it up. As a young boy, seeing him do that every day also made it very clear to me how serious a firearm was, and that I had no business touching it without his permission/presence.

We still talk about that to this day, as I now have 3 daughters and a granddaughter of my own. Parents need to teach earlier, not later.

 

[beararms1776]

Sad sad story indeed. The cheapest firearm safe is $24.99.

 

[LionWeight]

Sorry but I don't agree that "teaching them" is enough. We're talking about a 4 year old. At that age you can "teach" them not to touch it all you want to. It isn't going to matter if they want to "see" it and "touch" it. While there is no hard and fast rule on how old a child can be to be trusted with the knowledge of a firearm, I just don't buy it that 4 years old was old enough. My biggest fear in life is that I will have to bury one of my children. I think I can face anything face to face. This isn't one of them. The absolute worst day of my life so far (and I'm in my mid 50's) has been the day a close friend had to bury his 2 week old baby. This happened 31 years ago. I can't even think about that day today without choking up about it. When my grandkids come over, my guns are locked in the safe. We take 2 of them shooting. That's with our presence and guidance. Lock your damn guns up or keep them on your person. May God be with them and that little boy. They will NEVER get over this. They may get beyond it, but never over it.

 

[Hexlobular]

Sorry but I don't agree that "teaching them" is enough. We're talking about a 4 year old. At that age you can "teach" them not to touch it all you want to. It isn't going to matter if they want to "see" it and "touch" it. While there is no hard and fast rule on how old a child can be to be trusted with the knowledge of a firearm, I just don't buy it that 4 years old was old enough. My biggest fear in life is that I will have to bury one of my children. I think I can face anything face to face. This isn't one of them. The absolute worst day of my life so far (and I'm in my mid 50's) has been the day a close friend had to bury his 2 week old baby. This happened 31 years ago. I can't even think about that day today without choking up about it. When my grandkids come over, my guns are locked in the safe. We take 2 of them shooting. That's with our presence and guidance. Lock your damn guns up or keep them on your person. May God be with them and that little boy. They will NEVER get over this. They may get beyond it, but never over it.

Who said teaching them was enough?

 

[Deet]

Very sad story. We can argue over what should be done, how we should do it etc, but this is something that should never happen to a child.

 

[Gluemanz28]

Very sad that this has happened but lets use this as an opportunity to reinforce gun safety awareness to the children in our lives. I got my three Grandsons together (4, 5 & 6) just minutes ago to show them the picture of little Cash Irby. I explained to them what had happened, including his death. When we got back with their mom and dad they told them what happened to little Cash. I take them shooting and train them with visual as well as verbal training. Never assume you have given them all they need, keep reenforcing as much as you can with every opportunity you have.

 

[Gluemanz28]

Their child, entirely innocent, died because of the parents stupidity, and for no other reason.

"Feel sorry"? Absolutely not. But for the parents own stupidity, that young lad would be alive. No one should "feel sorry" for a parent that willfully and stupidly causes their child's death. Would one "feel sorry" for someone who took a loaded handgun, pointed it at their child, and pulled the trigger? Their wanton negligence did, in essence, exactly that.

Any "more punishment"? No, it should be ADDITIONAL punishment as a result of their complete failure to act responsibly. They should derive NO 'benefit' from such wanton and reckless conduct.

What should they be convicted OF? Reckless homicide, manslaughter, child abuse, child negligence, misuse of a firearm? There's likely multiple charges they COULD be charged with, and should be charged with every crime applicable.

What good would prison do? It would get these people away from others they might harm, or cause to harm, including whatever children are still in their care, who should be immediately and permanently removed from the custody of these parents.

Does that sound 'harsh'? It's a helluva lot less 'harsh' than what happened to Cash Irby, Jr. due to the stupidity of his parents.

(From another Poster) - What if the parents read this? Well, at least they GET to do so. Cash, Jr. does NOT.

So what if someone accidentally pulls out in front of a truck and their child dies at the result of the crash. Should they go to prison for twenty years? NO they should NOT, they made an accidental mistake.

Did Cash's Parents make a mistake, absolutely. Did they point the gun at the child as you referenced. NO!!!!!!!!!!!

Your disrespect for a grieving family is over whelming and saddens me and others as well. I hope that you never have to deal with a loss like this family is going through. Just remember that you reap what you sow.

 

[Snapdragon]

Very sad that this has happened but lets use this as an opportunity to reinforce gun safety awareness to the children in our lives. I got my three Grandsons together (4, 5 & 6) just minutes ago to show them the picture of little Cash Irby. I explained to them what had happened, including his death. When we got back with their mom and dad they told them what happened to little Cash. I take them shooting and train them with visual as well as verbal training. Never assume you have given them all they need, keep reenforcing as much as you can with every opportunity you have.

Repped.

 

[Gluemanz28]

Thanks for the Rep Snap you rock Girl

 

[IndyGunSafety]

This should serve as a wake up call to those on this forum that continually say they leave their firearms "on the nightstand" because they have taught their children proper respect for firearms. But it won't. This kind of tragic stupidity will continue. THEY MUST BE ON YOUR PERSON OR LOCKED UP. PERIOD! A simple GunVault would have prevented this... and many tragedies to come. If you think your children respect and fear you so much that they would not DARE touch your firearms, just go ahead and place your child's name in this article. You are playing a constant game of chance.

Ignorance and carelessness are the two leading causes of firearm negligence. Ignorance is not an insult. It simply means uneducated on the matter. While a 4 year old boy is certainly ignorant of the safe gun handling rules, the ignorance and carelessness of his parents is criminal.

Remember the little boy in Indianapolis a while back that got a chair and climbed up to retrieve his father's gun from the top of the entertainment center? Then went upstairs and shot and killed his 3 year old sister? WILL WE EVER LEARN?!

LOCK THEM UP!

 

[Bill of Rights]

I am saddened by this latest-reported negligence. Regardless of the cause, there are parents with a child to bury, siblings who won't understand why they need to learn about death so young, and lots of people who will demonize a tool or even the parents needlessly. This was preventable, and the only greater purpose I can see to an incident like this is that we are reminded just how deadly f***ing serious we need to remember what we do is.


I read on Cornered Cat years ago the process that the Jacksons undertook to protect their children. When her five sons were little, the guns were kept in a big cedar chest with stuff on top and a heavy lid. The kids were protected by their own physical weakness, good fortune, and the grace of God. As they began to get older, she and her husband began teaching the Eddie Eagle rules, slightly modified: Stop, don't touch, leave the area, tell an adult. Above all of those was don't touch, but there was a corollary to that:

What do you do if you really, REALLY want to touch it? You come ask me, and I'll drop everything and let you do that safely! (I'm paraphrasing her site from memory)

Kids will know where everything is in the house; no way around that. They also will get into everything possible, and no way around that either. They are curious and have to satisfy that curiosity. As parents, WE are responsible for giving them a safe outlet for that curiosity. How do we do it? We make sure they can safely handle a firearm, with our direct supervision, pointed only in a safe direction. We let them see everything about that gun... where the rounds (snap caps work) go, how the empty mag feeds in, how the slide strips a round and chambers it, and we let them manipulate the controls, all the while pointed in a safe direction, because, let's face it, pointing an empty gun at a bare brick wall gets boring fast.

Put in other, more familiar terms, we all have knives in our homes, and pretty dang sharp knives at that. Those of us with older kids know that there comes a point that they get taught how to cook, and some time after that, they have access to the sharpest knives you have, with which they could do some serious damage. We don't start them out there, though! We start them on butter knives... rounded tips, not even an edge to cut bread, let alone skin. They learn how to manipulate that correctly, while watching you use the table knives (rounded tip, but with a cutting edge) to cut their food for them. Eventually, they learn to do that for themselves, under your watchful eye, even though they'd REALLY have to work at it to hurt themselves with those kinds of knives. They still have to watch you use the steak knives and sharper for a while, but you do get to a point where they get to cut their own meat with your hand on the knife, then just your eyes on them, and eventually, they earn your trust and can cut their own meat without supervision. Finally, they get into the kitchen and cook a meal after a few more steps in the process. You might not yet trust them with a lawnmower or chainsaw, but they're well on the way.

The same process can be used with guns and ammo. It's a belt-and-suspenders approach, as Mrs. Jackson puts it, kid-proofing the guns, but also gun-proofing the kids.

The First Lesson | Cornered Cat

and

Disarming Kids? Curiosity | Cornered Cat

Mrs. Jackson, I know that you are a member here, though I don't know how often you read us. I would again like to thank you for a wonderfully instructive site and an insight into methods to do things that I might not have considered. You are an asset to the firearms community, and I am grateful for the help and instruction you give by example and by text.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[BehindBlueI's]

True. Being around when nature decides to "reset" things? That will be ugly. Concerning the OP, this is just the kind of thing that the anti-gun crowd will use to make the vast majority of us look reckless.

...and we will continue to do so. Just look at this thread.

4 y/o are completely capable of understanding firearms safety. Kids always listen to their parents. I did it, and I survived. What are the odds?

Now, start a thread stating you should lock your gun up. You'll see ninjas and assassins breaking in during the middle of the night and the whole family slaughtered because you couldn't get your gun out quick enough. Never mind personal experience, then. Never mind the odds then, its all about the stakes.

Guess which one happens way more often?

Children shot is one of the most sickening and gut wrenching things I deal with it, and I deal with it all too often.

 

[IndyGunSafety]

Great post Bill! When I was a young teen my father had his FFL and sold guns out of our house. I feared and respected my father and knew certain death awaited me if I ever messed with his guns. He keep them locked up in a large oak cabinet with chain and a pad lock. He had taught me to respect firearms, and how to use them. At least he provided the information... That doesn't mean I learned anything! As I grew older and wanted to show off for my friends (around age 13). I would just take a screwdriver , remove the door hinges, and pass out the guns after school!

Make sure they are locked up! As Bill pointed out in Mrs. Jackson's post, there could be flaws in your logic. You may avoid catastrophe your entire life. Or sadly, you may not.

LOCK THEM UP!

i can open my safe and have my loaded gun in my hand in less than 2 seconds. There is no excuse.

 

[foszoe]

And in our society, too many won't even take their children to a funeral because they don't want them to see a corpse, they are too young and tender. I say when a loved one dies, the child needs to see the finality of it all so they can understand death or at least begin to.

 

[Hookeye]

Kids don't process info like adults..............so the teaching must be continuous.
And you don't trust little kids no matter how good the instructor and or info.
Plus you put the fear of dad in them...........they got butts lit up for lesser stuff and knew they'd be beaten to death if they ever touched a gun without asking.

But being a mean old physical punishment dad is wrong! Well none of my kids messed with my guns and shot themselves or anybody else.
Seems to have worked just fine.