35 Remington - 1.800"

[Broom_jm]

Doug,

That's a beauty of a Model 8! You don't see 'em in that great a condition very often.

I'm trying to make sure I fully understand what you're doing to prep and test the shortened 35 Remington cases. I am not surprised that they cycle well; there just isn't enough neck being trimmed away for it to cause issues, from what I can see. Also, I really like your idea of leaving those short cases in the magazine while firing full power loads, to determine whether or not you get any set back. I would be happy to use mine as a 1+1, but knowing I wouldn't HAVE TO is a good thing.

Now, to what I'm a little fuzzy on. You're saying, if you find the shortened neck doesn't supply enough tension, you're going to size the case W/O the expander button, so that the neck gets squeezed down, but not back up...and then you're going to flare the case mouth, like a pistol round, before seating the bullet? If I've got that right, it just might be a stroke of genius. Frankly, I am thinking that would be a perfect solution, IF there is a problem. For the guys attempting to shorten a 358 Winchester case (only leaves .150" neck) it might just be required!

I would be very interested to hear further results, if/when you have the time. Is that 165gr bullet a hard cast, gas-checked "boolit"? In other words, could you drive it to ~2,300fps and hunt with it?

Jason

 

[Slow Hand]

Thanks, I bought it with a blown out muzzle and a very good machinist buddy cut it to 16+", threaded the muzzle, made a new nut/bushing and shortened up the barrel jacket. He also had to relocate the recoil spring perch and turn the barrel down a bit so the spring would fit. It's cycled perfectly with everything from 125gr pistil bullets to 225 gr spitzers.

You've got the just of both my neck tension and testing ideas. I bet if a guy were to download the mag tube on a marlin by one round you'd have enough spring to work as a shock absorber to prevent bullet setback. With my box mag the bullets will slam into the front of the mag every shot. I figured the sizing die would give plenty of bullet/neck tension.

The cast bullet I'm shooting is an old Lyman; 358447 or 477; I always forget. Basically it's a 358156 without a gas check. It has a shallow lube groove behind the crimping groove that can be used to seat the billet out to .357 oal in a .38 case. I've got a 195swc-gc that was probably designed for the .357 max and a 215 rnfp-gc. I'd probably go with some kind of jacketed bullet just because I prefer not to seat a gas check below the shoulder. Probably a 200 gr bullet.
I'm goin to try and trim down 50 or so cases and have them ready bit honestly with the same oal you get the same capacity so I could probably just practice with rwgar cases and trim back ten or so for the woods. I'll try and post updates as they come but with bird season winding down I'll be in the fields rather than at the range for the next few weeks.

Doug K

 

[Slow Hand]

PS I've also got a 358429-HP bullet that wod be fun on coyotes but probably too explosive for deer at .35 rem velocities.

 

[Klah Taxidermy]

Sending my SB2 in to have a 35 Remington barrel fitted next week. Finally got a hold of someone that works at Remington that knows the part number and availability. The barrels are still in stock so here I go. Just got my 357 Max done a couple of weeks ago and now I am going after the 35 Remington so all of my hunters in the house have 200 yard guns.

 

[Skip]

Sending my SB2 in to have a 35 Remington barrel fitted next week. Finally got a hold of someone that works at Remington that knows the part number and availability. The barrels are still in stock so here I go. Just got my 357 Max done a couple of weeks ago and now I am going after the 35 Remington so all of my hunters in the house have 200 yard guns.

Are you going to trim the cases back then? If so, let us know how it shoots. I am wondering if a 1:20" twist rate will stabilize anthing too heavy but that was for the 357Max. What twist rate will the 35Rem have? I know you and I talked about this yesterday at work but, folks need to know about the options out there.

After talking to Dick White about how he loads his 357Max's, I am thinking that a 158gr XTP or maybe even a 180gr Hornady SSP. Something of that like maybe.

FWIW

 

[Broom_jm]

Are you going to trim the cases back then? If so, let us know how it shoots. I am wondering if a 1:20" twist rate will stabilize anthing too heavy but that was for the 357Max. What twist rate will the 35Rem have? I know you and I talked about this yesterday at work but, folks need to know about the options out there.

After talking to Dick White about how he loads his 357Max's, I am thinking that a 158gr XTP or maybe even a 180gr Hornady SSP. Something of that like maybe.

FWIW

The 35 Remington should be no slower than a 1:16 ROT, which has been stabilizing short, flat-nosed 200gr bullets since Moses shot his last deer, so we know it won't have a problem with the 180gr SSP or the 200gr FTX. The short neck of the 35 Remington-1.8" might not be ideal for the FTX bullet, unless it's loaded pretty close to the lands. At the same time, the original 200gr Core-lokt RN is absolutely dynamite at 35 Remmy speeds, so if it shoots well from your gun...problem solved!

I'm pretty sure the 357Mag barrels from H&R also have a 1:16 twist, but a 357 MAX only has so much case capacity and can only drive a bullet to a certain velocity. The 180gr SSP is about the heaviest bullet suitable for that case and I think I'd stick with the 158gr XTP, personally.

The wildcard in the shortened 35 Remington would be the 180gr TTSX bullet. Obviously not a good choice for a tubular magazine, it might even present some challenges from an OAL perspective. My guess is it will be very accurate and could be driven to ~2,300fps, but the same can be said about the SSP, which is designed to operate at that speed.

 

[Klah Taxidermy]

My reality is starting to come together with the 357 Max and the 35 Remington. I am putting the 357 Herrett on hold. The Max and 35Rem are the rounds that I feel the everyday Joe should be going after. Neither require too much prep work(Max none, if you are not a reloader). Cannot wait to see what the wife will bring home next hunting season. That is if I can keep my 358WSSM out of her hands.LOL

 

[Kart29]

I'm not very enthusiastic about the idea of leaving the expander die out while sizing and leaving the neck small as a way to increase neck tension.

First, the neck on a .35 Rem case trimmed down to 1.800- doesn't leave alot of material to grip the bullet in the first place.

Second, from what I've read, you can't get more neck tension by undersizing the neck because as the bullet is seated, it will stretch the brass beyond its elastic limit and take it into the range of plastic deformation. That is to say, the bullet will do the work of the expander button and you'll end up with the same neck tension as you would if you had sized the cases as normal. A neck that is about .001 smaller than bullet OD is supposed to provide all the neck tension a brass case can provide.

I think trimming down a Lee FCD to provide a good crimp will be very useful here. If you happen to have a cast bullet with a groove in a location which will allow the shortened brass to crimp into that groove you might be okay. But I don't know how you would get the die to crimp the shortened case.

I had trouble keeping .35 Rem Cor-Lokt bullets from being set back into the case slightly until I put the FCD on them. Those bullets don't have a real groove for the case mouth to fit into. But, put the Factory Crimp Die on them and they aren't going anywhere.

If you can't use the Factory Crimp Die I would consider a load that already has a good bit of compression on the powder.

 

[Broom_jm]

Kart,

I've talked to several guys now who have performed this little experiment with trimming a 35 Remington case to 1.800". One of them used a shortened Lee FCD with good success while the other two were shooting from a single-shot rifle, so it didn't matter. Would you see a neck tension problem with using a 336 with one in the chamber and one in the tube?

 

[Kart29]

I'd only be speculating. And I wouldn't call it a neck tension "problem" exactly. It's just that in my experience, a tubular magazine will push a bullet deeper into the case unless the case is crimped into an honest to goodness crimp groove or a factory crimp is applied. Loading only one round in the magazine will reduce the pressure on the nose of the bullet significantly. But, with the neck trimmed back so far, any neck tension the brass provides is only going to be reduced. Heck, I can fairly easily push a jacketed bullet into a trimmed back case with moderate pressure from my fingertips. You could load up a couple dummies and cycle them through a few times and see what effect the force of the mag spring has. I doubt the recoil of the gun would make much difference if there was only the one round in the magazine tube.

Honestly, by using a full case of powder I don't think the bullet setback is going to be significant enough to cause a real "problem", especially with the generous safety margin offered by shooting .35 Rem cartridges in a modern design rifle.

But I would consider any bullet setback to be an issue with accuracy. I like all my cartridges to be the same and I don't like guessing, wondering, or taking chances with 35000 psi right between my eyes.

A Lee FCD costs less than $15 but I guess some folks don't have a good, easy way to trim .120 of the bottom. It's a 30 minute project in the garage for me. I probably wouldn't worry about it if I was using a single shot. But for a lever action and most definitely with a semi-auto, I would want that bullet fixed in place and not moving around on me.

 

[mike trible]

35 remington _ 1.800

I am using a Lee Collet resizing die for the 35Rem. on once fired cases, it only resizes the neck. Trim them to 1.8, I am then using a Lee 'Factory Crimp' die that I trimmed .120 off of, to crimp the bullet in. In trying to keep the proper overall cartridge length, I do not crimp in the crimping groove. I think that this gives plenty of neck tension on the bullet. By pushing by hand against the workbench as hard as I can I cannot get the bullet to move. I have not had a chance to test fire any loads yet.

 

[Broom_jm]

I am using a Lee Collet resizing die for the 35Rem. on once fired cases, it only resizes the neck. Trim them to 1.8, I am then using a Lee 'Factory Crimp' die that I trimmed .120 off of, to crimp the bullet in. In trying to keep the proper overall cartridge length, I do not crimp in the crimping groove. I think that this gives plenty of neck tension on the bullet. By pushing by hand against the workbench as hard as I can I cannot get the bullet to move. I have not had a chance to test fire any loads yet.

Mike, that sounds to me like the perfect combination of tools and processes to make the shortened 35 Remington work very well, even with multiple cartridge in a tubular magazine. Lest we forget, factory 300 Savage cases have a neck length of ~.221" so the ~.216" of a 1.800" long 35 Remington case just isn't going to be all that much different. The Lee FCD, cut to the correct length, will probably be the key to safe and accurate loaded rounds.

Please let us know how they shoot, when you get time to try 'em out.

 

[Yeah]

So nearly 2 months has passed since this was floated...no one has loaded and shot any of these things yet?

 

[Broom_jm]

Christmas and winter weather may have something to do with that. Come mid-November, you can bet more than a few of them will be heading for the woods.

 

[Adrian8]

a friend of mine has trimmed some .35 Rem. to 1.8 and shot them in a Marlin lever gun. I don't remember the yardage but the group was very small and everything worked fine. He is considering building a bolt action gun in .35 Rem.

 

[Yeah]

I admire the patience but don't want any for myself.

 

[mike trible]

35 Rem. 1.8

Shot them today. Remington once fired cases, neck sized only, 180 gr. bullets, CCI 250 Magnum primers, 748 powder (half way between the starting load and the maximum load), seated the bullets so that the base of the bullet was just at the bottom of the neck. Velocity was very consistant, 1980 fps average. Group size was 3/4" wide X 1" tall. 100 yds. Marlin 336 rifle, 20" barrel, Weaver K-4 scope. (thats good for my old eyes) I believe that as I move up toward a maximum load, I should be able to get very close to 2200 FPS. Should be a 150yd deer load.

 

[Broom_jm]

Shot them today. Remington once fired cases, neck sized only, 180 gr. bullets, CCI 250 Magnum primers, 748 powder (half way between the starting load and the maximum load), seated the bullets so that the base of the bullet was just at the bottom of the neck. Velocity was very consistant, 1980 fps average. Group size was 3/4" wide X 1" tall. 100 yds. Marlin 336 rifle, 20" barrel, Weaver K-4 scope. (thats good for my old eyes) I believe that as I move up toward a maximum load, I should be able to get very close to 2200 FPS. Should be a 150yd deer load.

If you get to 2200fps, sight in 3" high at 100 and it's an easy 200 yard load. In fact, it's a near perfect blend of trajectory and power to that distance, with the 180gr bullet. Beyond 200 it runs out of energy and is dropping like a rock, but up to that distance, it's plenty flat and has over 1,000fpe.

 

[coyotehunter4]

I can't beleive I didn't think of this. You guy's are right on target with this load. I have a Marlin 336C and have shot several deer at or close to 200 yrds with good accuracy and great knock down. The only thing I don't have is a FCD but I am ordering one tonight. I will start working up some loads and see what I can come up with. I will post some results as soon as I can.

 

[johnwayne]

So has anyone advanced this project since Feb?