35 Remington - 1.800"

[Matt52]

My wife says if you can't get any closer than 100 yards, you're not much of a hunter.

Tell that to the guys shooting game at 1000+ yards. It takes a fine weapon and a fair amount of calculation lol. Around here tho you would be lucky to get past 100 yards.

 

[Matt52]

I have looked into wildcat after wildcat and in the end Im probably just gonna get a 44 mag lever action. I just dont want to invest in a bunch of gear for wildcat cartridges. Barrels, brass, dies, bullets it can get expensive quick. Im already setup for 44 mag and Im of the belief that in time Indiana will open up for use of all centerfire rounds. If that happens I wont be dissappointed I bought the 44 mag lever action.

 

[Broom_jm]

I have looked into wildcat after wildcat and in the end Im probably just gonna get a 44 mag lever action. I just dont want to invest in a bunch of gear for wildcat cartridges. Barrels, brass, dies, bullets it can get expensive quick. Im already setup for 44 mag and Im of the belief that in time Indiana will open up for use of all centerfire rounds. If that happens I wont be dissappointed I bought the 44 mag lever action.

I totally respect your decision, but I have to wonder...

If you're already a handloader, getting set up to shoot a wildcat isn't a whole lot more expensive, and you get something cool to work with. I mean, the 44RM is a good carbine round, giving you as much as 125 yards worth of effective range, but it's pretty easy to double that with one of several common wildcats that are legal for Indiana.

If you want to keep it simple and cheap, the 35 Remington is the way to go. You buy the gun, buy the standard dies, trim brass back .120", and load as per normal load recipes. Buy a Lee FCD to ensure the shortened neck still provides good tension and you'll have an inexpensive 200 yard deer gun that's legal for Indiana. It also has the same advantage of the 44 rifle, in that you can sell it later as a "standard" rifle, instead of being stuck with a cool wildcat.

 

[kludge]

Or .357 Maximum, which will give approx. the same ballistics.

 

[Matt52]

I totally respect your decision, but I have to wonder...

If you're already a handloader, getting set up to shoot a wildcat isn't a whole lot more expensive, and you get something cool to work with. I mean, the 44RM is a good carbine round, giving you as much as 125 yards worth of effective range, but it's pretty easy to double that with one of several common wildcats that are legal for Indiana.

If you want to keep it simple and cheap, the 35 Remington is the way to go. You buy the gun, buy the standard dies, trim brass back .120", and load as per normal load recipes. Buy a Lee FCD to ensure the shortened neck still provides good tension and you'll have an inexpensive 200 yard deer gun that's legal for Indiana. It also has the same advantage of the 44 rifle, in that you can sell it later as a "standard" rifle, instead of being stuck with a cool wildcat.

I see your point with the 35 rem because its all standard stuff. I guess if was reffering to wildcats of the not so standard. Dies for those are gonna run you 150 at least not to mention a new gun or barrel.

 

[indyjoe]

Or .357 Maximum, which will give approx. the same ballistics.

I'm getting over 2200 fps out of my 180 gr ".35 Rem" rifle bullets. Seems to be right in the same ballpark with less work. $200 .357 Mag Handi-Rifle + $60 reamer. (Not as accurate as a rifle based cut, but seems to be good enough.)

 

[kludge]

Where are you finding $200 Handi's these days? Is yours an SB1 or SB2?

 

[indyjoe]

Where are you finding $200 Handi's these days? Is yours an SB1 or SB2?

I got mine at Bradis. Maybe a few bucks over $200, but pretty close, and two years ago now. I'm almost 100% sure it is a pistol carbine only, which would make it a SB1. The bolt thrust of the .357 Max is slightly under that of the .44 Mag, so I have no qualms with pushing .357 Max hard on the SB1 platform.

The outside diameter of the barrel of the .44 Mag and .357 Mag looked the same, so there is tons of extra metal for the .357 max. I started to get some pressure signs with my last few loads of the range, at near 2,400 fps. I haven't had a chance to work up loads for accuracy, but hope to find an accurate load in the 2,200 range. I'm planning on doing a ladder test when the weather turns a little cooler.

I found the .357 Mag to shoot right at MOA groups with Blazer Aluminum cased 158 JHPs, before I reamed the barrel.

I used rubber washers to do the poor man's barrel float on the Handi. I also did 60 cycles of pushing the hammer forward while pulling trigger. This burnishes the trigger group a little and has slightly lightened up the pull. It is still heavy, but manageable. The break is decent. I wouldn't mind a few pounds less and may send it in for fitting of a .44 Mag and another .357 barrel, and get the trigger job they will do in it.

I ordered a .35 Rem seating die depth piece from Lee to go in my Lee .357 Mag dies. This is required to seat a rifle style bullet. Otherwise the .357 Mag seater will crush the soft point.

 

[Kart29]

I just got a new .35 Rem Lee Factory Crimp Die and case length gage last week. This past weekend I trimmed the end off my old FCD and loaded up .35 Rem cases that were trimmed under 1.800. I used a 200 Grain Hdy FTX bullet because it seats deeper in the case and because it's the most accurate bullet I've been able to find in my rifle.

I loaded the cartridges with a compressed load of H4895. I had sized the cases using a Lee Classic Loader which I think neck sizes only. Neck tension with the trimmed down cases as still enough to keep the bullet from being pushed back out due to the compression of the powder. I think the majority of the neck tension comes from the part of the neck that is more central to the case because it is thicker there. Toward the case mouth the brass is much thinner and therefore I don't think that last .120 that was trimmed off really added much to the overall neck tension.

Still, with the cases crimped with the FCD I won't have to worry about the bullets moving in or out of the case no matter how many times they get rammed into a magazine tube or jacket through the receiver.

I've had this rifle for nearly 20 years. It's my favorite sporting rifle. I bought it because my Grandfather had a .35 Remington. When he died I was hoping to inherit it but, understandably, it went to his oldest son. So, I just went out and bought my own.

Well, the rounds are loaded up and ready to fire. I might not be able to get around to testing them until after the high-power shooting league I'm in is over for the season.

 

[mike trible]

Shot them today. Remington once fired cases, neck sized only, 180 gr. bullets, CCI 250 Magnum primers, 748 powder (half way between the starting load and the maximum load), seated the bullets so that the base of the bullet was just at the bottom of the neck. Velocity was very consistant, 1980 fps average. Group size was 3/4" wide X 1" tall. 100 yds. Marlin 336 rifle, 20" barrel, Weaver K-4 scope. (thats good for my old eyes) I believe that as I move up toward a maximum load, I should be able to get very close to 2200 FPS. Should be a 150yd deer load.

I was able to attain 2200fps with 748 powder, but accuracy fell off quickly after 2100fps. I believe that was partly due to shooting that load in a 20" 'Micro-groove' barrel. I backed that load down to right at 2100fps, and am getting nice 1" groups. And, thats what I plan on being my deer load this year.

 

[Kart29]

1" groups makes for a very fine big game rifle.

But I'm curious...why do you use magnum primers?

 

[rimfire_crazed]

1" groups makes for a very fine big game rifle.

But I'm curious...why do you use magnum primers?

Many reloaders prefer to use magnum primers with ball powders. Ball powders are a bit harder to ignite and the magnum primer often promotes a more complete burn.

Smaller charges of ball powders can often be more difficult to ignite based on the position of the powder in the case. This is why I'm using magnum primers in my M1 garand loads with Wc844/H335

Bottom line, there's absolutely nothing wrong with using a magnum primer assuming you've worked up your loads appropriately.

 

[melensdad]

A 35 Remington-short, with it's thinner brass, might not be as durable, but I'm guessing 5 firings, easily. As cheap and available as 35 Rem. brass is, it's not really an issue.

Be careful of case stretch. Its possible that you may cut the case back to 1.8" to make it IN DNR legal, but after firing the case may stretch beyond the legal maximium. Given you are shooting a shortened case in a full length chamber it is very possible that case stretch may become an issue.

I'm just suggesting you get a micrometer and TEST a dozen or two cases before you go out into the field.

 

[Broom_jm]

Be careful of case stretch. Its possible that you may cut the case back to 1.8" to make it IN DNR legal, but after firing the case may stretch beyond the legal maximium. Given you are shooting a shortened case in a full length chamber it is very possible that case stretch may become an issue.

I'm just suggesting you get a micrometer and TEST a dozen or two cases before you go out into the field.

OK, this is splitting hairs and I seriously doubt it's going to ever be questioned, given that the 35 Remington actually adheres to the medium-to-short-range philosophy of the PCR regulations.

Nonetheless, if the brass going INTO a chamber is 1.800" or less, it's legal, by the definition the state chose to use. If the brass coming OUT of the gun is a few thousandths too long, I don't see how that matters. It is no longer ammunition...it is an empty cylinder of brass. For those who do not reload, it is garbage or a recyclable material. By the legal definition, it is certainly not ammunition, anymore.

And do you really think some DNR officer is going to try to take a hunter to court for a 1.803" 35 Remington case, when the 1.625" 35WSSM cases already produce several hundred more feet per second? Even in this overly litigious country...I just don't see it hap'nin.

 

[Skip]

A friend just got a Handi rechambered in this caliber, said that he asked one of his DNR officer friends for a gauge that they used to determine if a rifle cartridge is legal or not.

He was me with blank stares!

I know something else too. Most DNR officers have no clue on what a caliper is nor how to use one. Not saying something bad about them, just not part of their job description.

It is like going to the local Autozone with a rotor that measures 1.600" and asking for it to get turned or ground. Minimum size for that model is 1.500" but the guy that measures them there says: "There isn't enough left to grind off of them." and sells you new ones.

JM, have you gotten any target results for this deal yet? I need to know so I can get it going for a friend of mine.

 

[UncleNorby]

I don't know where these notions come from. The regs pertain to loaded ammunition, not a spent case, and not the rifle's chamber.

Repeat after me, case stretch is not an issue, case stretch is not an issue...........

 

[Slow Hand]

It's been awhile since we've had any updates on this idea. Finished loading up some 200 gr soft points with some 2230 this morning. I hope to test them out tomorrow. Got to looking at the neck length and it's still a hair longer than the 7.62x39 and who knows how many billions of those have been fired full auto in the past 50+ years. Here's how mine turned out:

.

Hopefully I'll have some results tomorrow...

 

[Slow Hand]

Oh, I trimmed mine to 1.78 just to be safe!

 

[Broom_jm]

It's been awhile since we've had any updates on this idea. Finished loading up some 200 gr soft points with some 2230 this morning. I hope to test them out tomorrow. Got to looking at the neck length and it's still a hair longer than the 7.62x39 and who knows how many billions of those have been fired full auto in the past 50+ years. Here's how mine turned out:

.

Hopefully I'll have some results tomorrow...

That picture looks like a 35X300 Savage, or the 35 IHMSA. I bet it shoots groups that are plenty good enough for 200 yards or so. I'm really looking forward to seeing your results!

I forget; what gun are you shooting these from?

 

[Slow Hand]

Where I hunt, you are doing well to see a hundred so I figure the 200's at around 1900fps should do the trick. These were the only .358 rifle bullets I had around, beside some heavier ones for my .35 Whelen, but I may order some 180's and see how they do. Rifle is a cut down Remington Model 8 with Lyman tang sight.

I realized I left the gate card
For the range in my truck and it's in the shop waiting on a new transmission! So, testing may have to wait a week or two... Story of my life!