30-06 vs .308

[Dave Doehrman]

If you are tryng to reach out to 1000 meters then 30-06 whips 308s butt every time.

I see you are in Auburn. Do you have a 30-06? If you do, I'd like to invite you to come up to Young's Longshot Range, up northwest of Kendalville with your 30-06. I'll bring my .308 and we can play around out to 1,000 yards. Young's is a private range and if you're not a member I'll be happy to pay your guest fee.

Anyone can post an opinion, but I'm willing to post pictures of my 1,000 yard target with the .308 next to your target shot with the 30-06. I'll stick with my 168 grain .308 A-max bullets and you can shoot anything you want out of the 30-06.

Sometimes it is easier to pull the trigger on the keyboard than it is on a rifle.

 

[Leo]

Interesting challenge. Of course you know that at 1000 your skill set is more important than the caliber, provided you have a caliber with a projectile that can stay supersonic (ie: stable) to 1000 yards. A person without the skill set could not do the job using your rifle. At smaller events we saw pretty good medium distance shooters buy a top grade custom long range rifle and have trouble holding paper, let alone score, until they got some experience.

I had one hell of a time shooting an M1a on a Palma course, even with M118LR, and the score cards showed it. My Bolt action (with the longer 13 twist barrel) did much better even with the mandated 155 gr bullets, but if you missed the slightest wind change, or misjudge a wind swirl, you are pretty much screwed. My 6.5 X 284 and a .280 long range rifles had the velocity to really push a high B.C bullet that made things easier. In wind let offs that the .308 would have been lucky to hold a "9", the higher velocity (and higher B.C.) bullets would still be comfortably within the 10 ring. It was like cheating. Targets and official score keeping can be pretty humbling as well as rewarding.

I shot at Oak Ridge for the LR championship with a man from FL who won all three distances on a bear of a windy day with a 30-06 shooting 240 grain bullets. None of the .308's (including me) touched him. I was ok at 800 and 900, but I was going subsonic and tumbling at 1000 in service rifle class. The extra couple hundred FPS with a 30-06 would have made a big difference.

 

[WyldeShot]

A lot of good information. I hope to buy either a 308 or 30 06 this year. Which round is more accurate at 500+ yards? I know this depends a lot on the shooter.

 

[avboiler11]

One is a combat-proven round that works great for long-range shooting and hunting on every continent in the world, and is available anywhere ammunition is sold, even during the "great panic of 2012".

The other is its wimpy kid sister.

 

[Dave Doehrman]

Guys, a .30 caliber bullet moving at the same velocity and having the same weight and ballistic coefficient has no idea if it was fired out of a 30-06, a .308 or a 300 Win mag. Yes, twist rates come into play, but ballistics remain the same.

I reload for the .308 and have rounds from 150 grains up to 208 grains. I don't shoot the heavier bullets in my 700 due to the 1:10 twist rate. I prefer the .308 due to brass availability and the fact that it has a shorter action. If you reload, it doesn't make a rats a$$ either way. Just do what feels good to you.

 

[Litlratt]

If I could only have one, it would be a .308.

 

[Hohn]

Evaluating Rifle Cartridge:

Availability
Accuracy
Recoil
Performance

Between these two it comes down to a few pounds of recoil vs a few fps.

I personally don't think that availability really matters all that much. What kind of hunter thinks ammo is so unimportant that you just swing by the store and buy whatever they have? Like there's no difference in bullet weights or designs or any of that? I'd not hunt that way, and I'd prefer not to hunt with someone who does.

IMO, any self-respecting hunter has selected a load-- a singular load-- worked it up and dialed it in before the season. He sights in the rifle for the range he prefers. Then he acquires, say, 50 rounds or so of that same ammunition to get him through the entire season.

I grew up in WI where real deer rifle calibers were legal and seemingly everyone had a 30-06, .270, or 7mm RM. I can't recall a single time where anyone I knew actually shot more than 6 rounds for a single tag in an entire deer season.

For that kind of usage, the hunter should take the an attitude towards ammo more like what a sniper or benchrest guy might take. Not the "spray and pray, it's all good, any bullet'l do" attitude. Hence my conclusion that availability is minimally important.


I would combine accuracy and recoil into the accuracy consideration, because the main reason to care about recoil is the degree to which it harms accuracy-- either because we get tired/sore or develop a flinch.


JMO

 

[Dave Doehrman]

A lot of good information. I hope to buy either a 308 or 30 06 this year. Which round is more accurate at 500+ yards? I know this depends a lot on the shooter.

Here's a 5 shot group out of my .308 using 168 grain A-max bullets at 500 yards.

The group measures 1.496" center to center or 1/3 MOA at 500 yards. Like I said in an earlier post, it doesn't make any difference at all if you reload for your .30 cal weapon.

 

[avboiler11]

Dave,

Very impressive group!

I'd say it speaks more to your skill set as a marksman & reloader than it does the accuracy potential of the 308 vs. any other cartridge.

Indian > arrow, and all that.

 

[SSGSAD]

Well, I am a .308 guy, all the way, but have you considered the .270? It is a 3006 shell, necked down to .270, and is a really flat-shooting round. I do not own one, but Jack O'Conner, wrote extensivly about the .270. I will guess, less recoil, due to lighter bullets, and just as accurate. You, can buy the "most accurate" gun, bullet, etc., it doesn't make any difference, if YOU can't do your job... The target, in the post above, shows, what can happen, when man and machine, come together and it all works. Good Luck, and if it were me, I would definately go to the range, with the gentleman, who offered. Ask him, if you can accompany him, and shoot some of his rifles.....

 

[Litlratt]

.308 at 500 yards. No adjustment for wind as we were only concerned about how the load held elevation. 175 grain SMK

 

[ckcollins2003]

30-06 most def

308 costs more now, you get less bang for your buck (literally), and you can't get it anywhere.

If you are tryng to reach out to 1000 meters then 30-06 whips 308s butt every time.

Some funny information in this thread but this one was the icing on the cake for me.

Accuracy Facts - .308 Winchester versus .30-06 Springfield



OP, basically, they are the same round. Since you have no actual reason for purchasing the rifle other than, "having it", you should just choose whatever one you want.

Me? I'd go with the .308 if you were going to shoot it. Powder technology has come a long way throughout the years and you can achieve better ballistics with better accuracy than what people back in the 50's could. But, again, it's your choice. Factory ammo, you'll have pretty much the same ballistics between the two.

 

[Leo]

I like how Mr. Bobbit glossed over the two different rounds were shot in two different rifles. His observations would have more weight if he was determining results in a ballistics tunnel, or a least with quality bolt actions from a bench both using fine grade bullets like Sierra MatchKings. He also glossed over the manufacture of bullets between two different eras. Pull the gilding metal bullets out of late 40's vintage M2 ball, and load them in a good match rifle, you will not be happy.
Velocity is the difference. If you don't need the extra 150 to 200 fps velocity, the 30-06 does not offer much except for the variety of hunting ammo commonly found.

 

[Hohn]

Well, I am a .308 guy, all the way, but have you considered the .270? It is a 3006 shell, necked down to .270, and is a really flat-shooting round. I do not own one, but Jack O'Conner, wrote extensivly about the .270. I will guess, less recoil, due to lighter bullets, and just as accurate. You, can buy the "most accurate" gun, bullet, etc., it doesn't make any difference, if YOU can't do your job... The target, in the post above, shows, what can happen, when man and machine, come together and it all works. Good Luck, and if it were me, I would definately go to the range, with the gentleman, who offered. Ask him, if you can accompany him, and shoot some of his rifles.....

I didn't see any evidence he was interested in .270, though it is a solid recommendation.

Relative to the .30 cals,the negative I see to a .270 is bullet weight options. It seems that .270 is all either 130 or 150 grain and only those two choices.

 

[walleyepw]

My understanding that balisticaly they are pretty much even up to about 165 grain projectile. After that the 30-06 has a slight advantage in fps. I would look at what brand and style of rifle you are looking for. If a bolt action the .308 is a short action the .30-06 a long action. But you can also get both in single shots, semi- autos, levers actions, and pumps.

 

[Leo]

I did the lazy man research, Wiki for this info. 150 gr 30-06, 2910fps. The 150gr .308, 2820 fps.
(.300 WIN MAG 165 gr bullet 3265 oh yeah!) The loading manuals have a lot more examples.

At inside 600 yards 100 fps is pretty meaningless, at the long line 100 fps is a good thing to have. If it wasn't, no one would have built the 6.5 X 284. Neither of the examples are exactly what I would consider to be an impotent cartridge. We havent even gotten into the .300 RUM or .300 WSM, or the 7.62 Lazzeroni. Lots of varietys, keeps things interesting.

"ain't much trouble a man can't fix with 900 dollars and a 30-06"

 

[totenkopf]

Having owned and shot both, I'd say I prefer .30-06 because I have more rifles chambered in it than anything else (M1917, M1903, 03-a3, Garand, and a Remington 700 BDL). Plus like so many others on here, I usually can find .30-06 when I go looking for it. .308, not so much.

 

[Yeah]

This is quite a lot of debate, over whether finishing last or dead last is the preferred position.

 

[bakeman]

At the wal-mart in linton the only ammo they have had available is some shotgun stuff, some .243....and a bunch of 30-06. So as far as availability goes, right now 30-06 is the easiest to get.

 

[foszoe]

with all the political BS (and yes I know its important to be involved right now and I am), it is certainly refreshing to find a nice caliber vs caliber discussion on a gun forum that doesn't involve the effectiveness of a .22 for SD or the performance of 9 vs 40 vs 45 !!!