.22LR WoW....am not believing what I am seeing..

[LarryC]

Just a couple of comments, first I do like the views of most of the members here, but no one here is my best "Friend". I'm very sure there are many of my beliefs that others on this site don't have! We are not "buddies" that owe anyone here money out of our pockets. I don't sell my firearms or my ammo, never have - don't think I ever will. But if for some unforeseen reason I had to sell something, I certainly would not feel, (nor do I think you should feel) that I or you should take less money than the market will bear. I bought a few SKS's for less than $100, do the ones here talking about "gouging" feel I should sell them for $110? It isn't going to happen! I repeat, no one really "NEEDS" 22 LR ammo right now, if they "need" it now - why didn't they "need" it 3 months ago when it was $18.75 a brick at Rural King? As far as destroying the gun community by selling for $50 or ever $250 - why should this have any effect on this or any other forum? DON'T buy ammo NOW! Just remember what happened and when it goes down, start keeping a stock of ammo. I remember when perfect 1911's were less than $50 - right after WW2. Try to buy one now for $1500. "Gouging"?? Start stocking (hording) when the prices drop or start reloading, Quit complaining!

 

[rvb]

No it should be the person selling it! They should have been taught ethics and morality. but with some it is abvious that that little lesson on how to be a decent human. was lost on alot of people.

I have a what I believe to be a strong sense of morality. My religious foundation gives me a feeling of being obligated to helping a person in need. If some ammo is honestly making the difference in you having food on the table, or if you are in justifiable fear for your life and need some carry ammo (real fear, not just catching the carry wave -today- like most), I would happily GIVE you the ammo, not just sell it at a good price.

What I suspect every single person here is talking about is a want, not a need. A way to fulfill a past time. The most "need" anyone here can probably justify is to practice for self defense... and you can accomplish 90% of that for free in dryfire practice.

You're not asking me to feed your family, heat your home, or get you enough gas to get to work. You might as well be asking me to sell golf balls or my season tickets to a sold out ball game, all for less $ than they are worth.

You're a new shooter who can't get started in shooting? Guess what, you don't take up downhill skiing in the summer, either.

Guilt is the new norm. I'm told I have to feel guilty for driving a pickup, for owning a gun, for prefering the light from an incandescent lightbulb, and hundreds of other things that are part of my daily life. And now I have to feel guilty because you can't go shoot? It's Friday night, should I buy you tickets to the movies, too?

I love to shoot. I put myself in a position ensuring I could continue. Are their circumstances where I would happily put my ammo into a community collection? Absolutely, but this isn't Lexington yet. Is there a price I would start selling ammo vs using it? Absolutely, but it's not high enough for me to part with it yet.

How about folks stop worrying about finding ammo for a while. Put that effort into contacting your reps? Stop worrying about the price of ammo and let the market settle a while. Shop around for things that may actually get legislated away (eg magazines... or will I be made to feel guilty someday for not "fairly" selling those, too).

Learn to think long term (I just today got a call a bullet order [not loaded cartridges] I placed 9 months ago(!) is shipping today. It's for my 2014 needs. I did not pay "inflated" prices. If I "spread the wealth" around, knowing a 9-mo min lead time, I may not get to shoot in 2014).

I reject your version of "morality." I decided long ago I'm done feeling guilty.

-rvb

 

[hornadylnl]

I have a what I believe to be a strong sense of morality. My religious foundation gives me a feeling of being obligated to helping a person in need. If some ammo is honestly making the difference in you having food on the table, or if you are in justifiable fear for your life and need some carry ammo (real fear, not just catching the carry wave -today- like most), I would happily GIVE you the ammo, not just sell it at a good price.

What I suspect every single person here is talking about is a want, not a need. A way to fulfill a past time. The most "need" anyone here can probably justify is to practice for self defense... and you can accomplish 90% of that for free in dryfire practice.

You're not asking me to feed your family, heat your home, or get you enough gas to get to work. You might as well be asking me to sell golf balls or my season tickets to a sold out ball game, all for less $ than they are worth.

You're a new shooter who can't get started in shooting? Guess what, you don't take up downhill skiing in the summer, either.

Guilt is the new norm. I'm told I have to feel guilty for driving a pickup, for owning a gun, for prefering the light from an incandescent lightbulb, and hundreds of other things that are part of my daily life. And now I have to feel guilty because you can't go shoot? It's Friday night, should I buy you tickets to the movies, too?

I love to shoot. I put myself in a position ensuring I could continue. Are their circumstances where I would happily put my ammo into a community collection? Absolutely, but this isn't Lexington yet. Is there a price I would start selling ammo vs using it? Absolutely, but it's not high enough for me to part with it yet.

How about folks stop worrying about finding ammo for a while. Put that effort into contacting your reps? Stop worrying about the price of ammo and let the market settle a while. Shop around for things that may actually get legislated away (eg magazines... or will I be made to feel guilty someday for not "fairly" selling those, too).

Learn to think long term (I just today got a call a bullet order [not loaded cartridges] I placed 9 months ago(!) is shipping today. It's for my 2014 needs. I did not pay "inflated" prices. If I "spread the wealth" around, knowing a 9-mo min lead time, I may not get to shoot in 2014).

I reject your version of "morality." I decided long ago I'm done feeling guilty.

-rvb

Amen

 

[jcwit]

Well that is an opinion of an opinion!

 

[hornadylnl]

We just need some James Taggarts, Wesley Mouch's, Oren Boyles, and Phillip Reardons to propose an anti dog eat dog rule in the gun world.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I have a what I believe to be a strong sense of morality. My religious foundation gives me a feeling of being obligated to helping a person in need. If some ammo is honestly making the difference in you having food on the table, or if you are in justifiable fear for your life and need some carry ammo (real fear, not just catching the carry wave -today- like most), I would happily GIVE you the ammo, not just sell it at a good price.

What I suspect every single person here is talking about is a want, not a need. A way to fulfill a past time. The most "need" anyone here can probably justify is to practice for self defense... and you can accomplish 90% of that for free in dryfire practice.

You're not asking me to feed your family, heat your home, or get you enough gas to get to work. You might as well be asking me to sell golf balls or my season tickets to a sold out ball game, all for less $ than they are worth.

You're a new shooter who can't get started in shooting? Guess what, you don't take up downhill skiing in the summer, either.

Guilt is the new norm. I'm told I have to feel guilty for driving a pickup, for owning a gun, for prefering the light from an incandescent lightbulb, and hundreds of other things that are part of my daily life. And now I have to feel guilty because you can't go shoot? It's Friday night, should I buy you tickets to the movies, too?

I love to shoot. I put myself in a position ensuring I could continue. Are their circumstances where I would happily put my ammo into a community collection? Absolutely, but this isn't Lexington yet. Is there a price I would start selling ammo vs using it? Absolutely, but it's not high enough for me to part with it yet.

How about folks stop worrying about finding ammo for a while. Put that effort into contacting your reps? Stop worrying about the price of ammo and let the market settle a while. Shop around for things that may actually get legislated away (eg magazines... or will I be made to feel guilty someday for not "fairly" selling those, too).

Learn to think long term (I just today got a call a bullet order [not loaded cartridges] I placed 9 months ago(!) is shipping today. It's for my 2014 needs. I did not pay "inflated" prices. If I "spread the wealth" around, knowing a 9-mo min lead time, I may not get to shoot in 2014).

I reject your version of "morality." I decided long ago I'm done feeling guilty.

-rvb

Nice post, Ryan.

I could think of several more issues I'm sick and tired of people trying to make me feel guilty of too.

But to your point, I too tried to plan ahead. But you know what? I wasn't disciplined enough to keep up a program to accumulate enough ammo to feel comfortable shooting for fun without having to worry, I might exhaust my supply before sanity returns. That's no body's fault but mine. My penance will be to suffer by not shooting as much as I'd like until ammo becomes at least relatively plentiful again.

Lesson learned. Never again.

 

[Fourtrax]

Very nice post Ryan. My sentiments exactly!!!

 

[The Bubba Effect]

I think this ammo shortage is great! I think it is actually helping the gun community quite a bit.

There are people who I have hounded for years to buy a little, tiny bit of extra ammo for their firearms. These people ignored my pleas and refused to buy. Now those very same people are scrambling around trying to get whatever they can. I couldn't get them to pick up 200 rounds of brass cased .223 when it was .34 a pop, but now they are buying it by the thousand at twice the price and thrilled to have it.

We all knew this was coming. You could see it a mile away.

If you want to blame someone for the rush on ammo and high prices, blame those who knew they should stock up and didn't when ammo was plentiful. If more people had stocked up incrementally before the election, then there would not be the ammo run to begin with.

So there, shame on you guys who did not stock up beforehand, got caught short and are now scrambling for everything on the shelves. If you had been prepared, we would not be in this crunch right now.

Just to be clear, any claims of financial hardship preventing stocking up on ammo will fall on deaf ears if you have bought furniture, hd/3d televisions, cable television service/other "luxuries" in the past four years. If you spent your discretionary money on that stuff in stead of ammo, then you made your choice.

To anyone who is still reading and who is profiting immensely from selling ammo they bought cheap at tremendously inflated prices, good for you. I hope you invest your profits wisely.

 

[jcwit]

To anyone who is still reading and who is profiting immensely from selling ammo they bought cheap at tremendously inflated prices, good for you. I hope you invest your profits wisely.

And do it legally.

Which I doubt is the case.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

Still not answering the question.

Who decides what price is ethical?

The market decides. The price should be the amount at which the buyer is willing to buy and the seller is willing to sell. If both parties are acting without outside compulsion, that is the ethical price.

It would be unfair to force the buyer to pay more than they are willing to pay. The buyer must be free to determine how best to spend their limited resources.

It would be similarly unfair to force the seller to sell their property for less than they are willing to sell.

If the buyer and seller agree on a price, that is the most ethical way to set a price. Notice that I did not say that the ethical price is the lowest a seller will sell or the highest a buyer will pay.

I have seen many transactions where a seller refused a price and countered with a lower price. The seller had reasons of their own and it being the seller's property they were uniquely qualified to determine what they were willing to do.

I have likewise seen many transactions where the buyer refused a lower price, countering with a higher offer. The buyer is likewise uniquely able to determine the amount they will pay, even if it means insisting they pay more than the seller is willing to accept.

 

[jcwit]

We all knew this was coming. You could see it a mile away.

So there, shame on you guys who did not stock up beforehand, got caught short and are now scrambling for everything on the shelves. If you had been prepared, we would not be in this crunch right now.

But there those who could not prepare such as 4-H groups, summer camps etc.

As far as the individuals ICCL.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

And do it legally.

Which I doubt is the case.

I don't care if they do it legally.

On second thought, that is not true, I hope they keep their profits tax free and never report it. I hope they enjoy the fruits of their labor (buying and selling being labor too) without having a single penny wrung out of them by oppressive and unjust taxation. I hate the idea of taxes and the suggestion of worms lurking, waiting for their chance to feed on the labor of others. The very idea sickens me.


Of course, for me this is all academic and a matter of principle. The only guns and ammo I have sold has been to friends and family and has never been for more than I paid, almost always for less because I had other motivations. I did not claim the loss on my taxes either.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

But there those who could not prepare such as 4-H groups, summer camps etc.

As far as the individuals ICCL.

Have them put out a call on INGO.

I'm not kidding. There is ammo out here. If you know of organizations who teach children how to shoot who are going to have to go without ammo, have them put out a call for it specifically for their organization. We'll see what we can do. There are many people on here who wouldn't sell a brick of .22 for $50 but would give it to kids.

 

[hornadylnl]

I don't care if they do it legally.

On second thought, that is not true, I hope they keep their profits tax free and never report it. I hope they enjoy the fruits of their labor (buying and selling being labor too) without having a single penny wrung out of them by oppressive and unjust taxation. I hate the idea of taxes and the suggestion of worms lurking, waiting for their chance to feed on the labor of others. The very idea sickens me.


Of course, for me this is all academic and a matter of principle. The only guns and ammo I have sold has been to friends and family and has never been for more than I paid, almost always for less because I had other motivations. I did not claim the loss on my taxes either.

Who is John Galt?

 

[jcwit]

I don't care if they do it legally.

On second thought, that is not true, I hope they keep their profits tax free and never report it. I hope they enjoy the fruits of their labor (buying and selling being labor too) without having a single penny wrung out of them by oppressive and unjust taxation. I hate the idea of taxes and the suggestion of worms lurking, waiting for their chance to feed on the labor of others. The very idea sickens me.


Of course, for me this is all academic and a matter of principle. The only guns and ammo I have sold has been to friends and family and has never been for more than I paid, almost always for less because I had other motivations. I did not claim the loss on my taxes either.

So, you support tax evasion?

Fits your location.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

So, you support tax evasion?

Fits your location.

I do in fact, philosophically if not in practice.

That's why I always try to give tips in cash even if I pay for my meal with a debit card. I hope the server pockets it and does not report it.

 

[jcwit]

For your reading pleasure.

Rationing, profiteering and non-shooters

 

[Spudgunr]

And do it legally.

Which I doubt is the case.

In filing taxes, there is "income from a hobby" section. Of course, you can offset income with deductions. So, whose gun hobby expenses don't more than offset the income? I was making a profit on a lathe for a while. Of course, the $200 profit was more than offset by the $400 I spent in tooling ($200 does not equal $400, shh, don't tell the wife). So, again, whose gun hobby expenses wouldn't offset the couple hundred they are going to make on 22 ammo?

 

[The Bubba Effect]

I read the post. Thank you for sharing it. I support the stores to sell to whom they like and as much or as little as they like. I also support the right of the people who buy the dies and ammo to attempt to resell them for gross profits if they like.

Since I do love a good read and you shared, I would like to return the favor two for one.
For your reading pleasure

Das Kapital
and
Atlas Shrugged

I think Marx's analysis of the problem is actually sometimes very accurate, but I disagree strongly with his proposed solutions.

Rand's novel is stirring. If you have not read it, I suggest really do suggest it to one and all. It is a bit of a chore in parts, but it really is brilliant.

 

[warthog]

Long before any movie was made, I read Atlas Shrugged. I'm afraid you don't get the point of the book gents.

I'm not talking about any sort of hand outs, I am talking about standing as one and trying to fight what is happening to our hobby. Instead, you seem to think that I am doing the opposite and trying to make this some sort of socialist world. I said several times I am far more conservative that any of you here and I am afraid it seems I am also able to think clearer too. I am not burdened by a knee-jerk reply to everything I read nor will I make fun of your spelling when I have not good way to refute your arguments. It's called an open mind. Something I would hope more of us would attempt rather than constantly trying to see negatives where there are none.

For the record, there is no Constitutional basis for a Federal Income Tax. I am not rich enough to pay one but I do file, why not? Keeps them off my back. They don't get anything but a new piece of paper to read and I spend the postage to send it. Big whoop.