2013 Legislative session

[jedi]

thanks BoR. so can someone tell me when the astroid is going to hit us

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

thanks BoR. so can someone tell me when the astroid is going to hit us

We're safe for now...but if they should ever pass "constitutional carry" and/or end "gun free zones" at schools, etc.....THEN watch out!

 

[Bill of Rights]

We're safe for now...but if they should ever pass "constitutional carry" and/or end "gun free zones" at schools, etc.....THEN watch out!

Meh. Everyone will have guns, and as we all know, a gun is so powerful, if a couple of us shot at the asteroid, it would blow it up to tiny bits and not hurt us at all.

Dang. Lost the purple crayon again.

Of note, the surprise I mentioned? Later today, every post in this thread following the most recent one from John Galt is going to increase by one in its post number...(this, for example, will be post #363)

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Kirk Freeman]

will you comment on a hypothesis I'd had for many years? That is, that being a movie culture, large numbers of people, including many legislators, get their "education" on firearms, edged weapons, etc. from - and are highly influenced by - Hollywood movies.

Correct. The switchblade ban was called "The Movie Scare".

Popular culture pushes legislation.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

​

​

OK, someone out there with a law degree... The repeal of Indiana's switchblade ban being imminent, I have to ask:

According to 15 USC 1241-1244, having those little beasties is still a violation of federal law, or so it would appear. Is there some exception to that of which I'm not aware or is it going to be the same as California's law in re: marijuana? (legal at state level, not legal federally.)

Hold the statute (§1243) up to a mirror and see if you understand now.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Hold the statute (§1243) up to a mirror and see if you understand now.

Not really, no. Show me what you mean or, as JetGirl has been seen to write: "Say it like I'm four."

15 USC § 1241 - Definitions

As used in this chapter— (a) The term “interstate commerce” means commerce between any State, Territory, possession of the United States, or the District of Columbia, and any place outside thereof.
(b) The term “switchblade knife” means any knife having a blade which opens automatically—

(1) by hand pressure applied to a button or other device in the handle of the knife, or
(2) by operation of inertia, gravity, or both.
​

15 USC § 1242 - Introduction, manufacture for introduction, transportation or distribution in interstate commerce; penalty

Whoever knowingly introduces, or manufactures for introduction, into interstate commerce, or transports or distributes in interstate commerce, any switchblade knife, shall be fined not more than $2,000 or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.
​

15 USC § 1243 - Manufacture, sale, or possession within specific jurisdictions; penalty

Whoever, within any Territory or possession of the United States, within Indian country (as defined in section 1151 of title 18), or within the special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States (as defined in section 7 of title 18), manufactures, sells, or possesses any switchblade knife, shall be fined not more than $2,000 or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.
​

15 USC § 1244 - Exceptions


Sections 1242 and 1243 of this title shall not apply to—

(1) any common carrier or contract carrier, with respect to any switchblade knife shipped, transported, or delivered for shipment in interstate commerce in the ordinary course of business;
(2) the manufacture, sale, transportation, distribution, possession, or introduction into interstate commerce, of switchblade knives pursuant to contract with the Armed Forces;
(3) the Armed Forces or any member or employee thereof acting in the performance of his duty;
(4) the possession, and transportation upon his person, of any switchblade knife with a blade three inches or less in length by any individual who has only one arm; or
(5) a knife that contains a spring, detent, or other mechanism designed to create a bias toward closure of the blade and that requires exertion applied to the blade by hand, wrist, or arm to overcome the bias toward closure to assist in opening the knife.​

 

[Bill of Rights]

The session is done. The House and Senate have adjourned Sine Die ("without date"), meaning they're done for this year. There were several good bills this year, many of which died on the vine, never even given a hearing. The reporting on Sandy Hook (and resultant blowback) didn't help, of course, and I can imagine an additional part of the reason for those bills not being heard is that there is a supermajority in both houses; literally, anything that the GOP wants to do right now, it can, but neither the House nor Senate leadership want to pull an Obama with the "Elections have consequences" thing. That didn't go over so well when Obama said it. In addition, I'm told that Speaker Brian Bosma is very sensitive to media issues: No one, least of all the guy in charge of the whole thing, wants his name to show up on a bill that "allowed" a tragedy to happen. (Remember, not everyone views things with the common sense some INGO members use: While we know that no law "allows" a tragedy any more than it prevents one, media spin ("Lax gun laws allow murder in school!", or some such) can make the sky green and the grass blue.) I'm not willing to give them a "pass" on doing this, but I am willing to agree that, not being "gun guys", they might simply be ignorant of the truths we know here. Ignorance, I hasten to add, is curable by education. I'll come back to that point in a minute.

One bill that received tumultuous objection this session was SB 555, which would have created a new state license, one that required training, a photo, and a variety of other hoops to jump through to obtain it. I can see where, correctly administered, such a bill could have had promise, but in the end, people are not willing to trust government to correctly administer anything, and they darn sure aren't willing to trust that government will never change to the benefit of "the other side". Again, that bill did not pass. However...

Good laws we saw this session:
HB 1563: Hunting with suppressors was decriminalized, while at the same time making it a new offense to hunt somewhere without permission while in possession of a suppressor. That is, as long as you're hunting legally, with permission of the landowner, the fact that you have and/or are using a suppressor is no longer a crime. In addition, a couple of amendments made it into this good bill in conference committee. As a result, shooting ranges now have some protection from localities trying to legislate them out of business and automatic knives ("switchblades") are no longer unlawful to own, carry, buy, sell, etc.
SB 1: It is now IN law that schools must have someone on staff that is armed and trained to protect students and faculty alike. This does not have to be a police officer. As an added bonus, a late amendment to that bill was added that... ready for this?... REMOVES the prohibition on carry at "property being used by a school for a school function"! Thus, IC 35-47-9-2 now reads:

IC 35-47-9-2
Possession of firearms on school property, at school function, or on school bus; felony
Sec. 2. A person who possesses a firearm:

(1) in or on school property or;
[STRIKE](2) in or on property that is being used by a school for a school function; or[/STRIKE]
[STRIKE](3)[/STRIKE] (2)on a school bus;
​

commits a Class D felony.

THIS. IS. HUGE!
​

No more worries about the school field trip showing up somewhere where you are lawfully armed. No more "roving school GFZ". No more worries about a trip to the zoo or the park suddenly making you an instant, unavoidable felon.

I said a moment ago that I'd come back to the education issue. Here it is.
I received a message from a legislator who asked me to pass this along here:

Bill,
If you could please spread the word that these Reps. were/are very instrumental in getting our gun rights protected, it would certainly help.
Rep. Jud McMillan - District 68
Rep. Sean Eberhart - District 57
Rep. Heath VanNatter - District 38
Rep. Jim Lucas - District 69
Rep. Eric Koch - District 65

The ones in leadership that need NICE and POLITE correspondence encouraging consideration of gun friendly legislation are:
Speaker Brian Bosma
Rep. Bill Davis - District 33 - Chairman of Public Policy Committee

We had a pretty decent year, as far as legislation goes. We didn't lose ground and we actually picked some up. We have the momentum with us and I want to work on our cause during the summer. Constant POLITE "reminders" to these people, especially leadership (they decide what and what does not get heard) REALLY does help! it's a long hard road, and nothing is promised, but nothing easy comes to those that don't fight!
Thanks for all you do. I believe that if we can keep constant pressure applied, from your side and mine, we can eventually make Indiana the envy of the nation and how it really should be -

(The above message is reposted with his permission. I couldn't say it any better than he did.)

Now... some of us are not inclined to trust politicians, and in many cases, we don't want to compliment them. We need to remember that they are people first, though, and like any of us, we like being praised when we do well. We can all take a little criticism when something we do displeases someone, even our employers, but it's awfully nice to know you have the backing of the people that employ you when you're deciding to risk some political capital or even risk losing the job you worked to get. Sadly, none of the above are my Representative. I'll be letting him know my position on the above and encouraging his future support of good bills, examples of which would be repeals of old laws that were never really any good in the first place.

Ladies and gentlemen, I'm going to ask that you each join me in writing to our legislators often over the next 8 months. Initially, as in right now, they need to each get a "thank you" for the good work they did if they voted in our favor on the above bills. Over the next several months, I'd like to see them each (as in all 150 of them!) receive no fewer than eight, preferably 16 or more notes of encouragement to vote in favor of gun rights next session. We can include bits and pieces of pro-gun rights information in those notes, such as the fact that LTCH holders are not the ones found to be committing crimes, only stopping them, as evidenced by how few of our LTCHs are revoked or even suspended each year, but they need to hear from us, not only during the session but throughout the year as well. In the words of the legislator who wrote to me,

When telling everyone to contact these Representatives, please STRONGLY encourage them to keep it POSITIVE and ENCOURAGING. It's not that we're thin-skinned and can't take the criticism, but we get enough hate mail the way it is and those types of emails or letters don't really go a long way towards generating positive interest in a topic. If it's something I believe in, I can take all of the criticism in the world. But if it's something I believe in, but is controversial (like guns!), then a little positive reinforcement goes a LONG way towards encouraging me to stick my neck out on the chopping block, if you know what I mean!

In short, I'd like all 150 of them to come back to the next session primed with the knowledge that their constituents (US!) overwhelmingly favor gun rights and want them to vote in our favor.

Thank you all for following this thread this session. Please start writing the representatives and senators now.

Blessings,
Bill

Quoted my own post, made a week ago, but necessarily kept hidden.

I have been champing at the bit to tell everyone about this, however, as hard-fought as it was, I was not going to chance a letter or call campaign to Gov. Pence not to sign it. [strike]In addition, SEA 1 had the line in it, "An emergency is declared for this act.", which means it is law *right now*![/strike] CORRECTION: This becomes effective July 1, 2013, not immediately. I regret the error.

I do want to add that things like this happened not only because of a bunch of politicians getting in a room together, but because of the drive behind them to do so, and because we are electing people who "get it", people who understand that guns are not the problem, criminals are.

My thanks to every legislator who worked to draft this and every legislator who voted to pass it.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Kirk Freeman]

15 USC § 1243 - Manufacture, sale, or possession within specific jurisdictions; penalty

Whoever, within any Territory or possession of the United States, within Indian country (as defined in section 1151 of title 18), or within the special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States (as defined in section 7 of title 18), manufactures, sells, or possesses any switchblade knife, shall be fined not more than $2,000 or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.
​

*Puts on tweed jacket and plastic glasses, summons the spirit of Sheldon Nahmod*

"Mr. Freeman, what type of world are we living in concerning this matter?"

"An Article IV, §3 world, Professor Nahmod."

*sits down next to Kirk* "Welllll, what does that mean?"

"It means that Congress has plenary power to regulate the territories of the United States. We are not in a Commerce Clause world, Professor, where Congress is regulating within the United States of America."

Stand the law on its head. It applies outside the Venn Diagram of the USA, not within.

You live in Indiana, not Indian country. Indiana is a state of the United States of America, not a territory or possession such as . . . oh, geez, who could Congress be frightened of?

The statute is written to apply to those outside the United States, such as, oh, I don't know who could Congress specially be scared of during The Movie Scare of the 1950s?*

Let me think.

*Not to anger or insult anyone, just stating the motive for the law.


​

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Thanks for the good news, Bill! Progressivism in a positive direction. I love it!

 

[Bill of Rights]

OK, I see what you meant now. Correct me if I'm mistaken, and please explain how, but as I read it,
1241 defines the terms "interstate commerce" and "switchblade",
1242 defines the crime involved in re: interstate commerce and defines a penalty
1243 extends 1242's reach to the territories, etc., and
1244 exempts mail carriers/UPS/FedEx, exempts military and those who manufacture for the military, exempts people with only one arm, so long as the blade is no longer than a given length, and exempts "assisted opening" knives.

If I've read it correctly, 1243 would not apply to us here, but 1242 certainly would.

I want to be wrong about this, but I don't see how I am.

Blessings,
Bill

*Puts on tweed jacket and plastic glasses, summons the spirit of Sheldon Nahmod*

"Mr. Freeman, what type of world are we living in concerning this matter?"

"An Article IV, §3 world, Professor Nahmod."

*sits down next to Kirk* "Welllll, what does that mean?"

"It means that Congress has plenary power to regulate the territories of the United States. We are not in a Commerce Clause world, Professor, where Congress is regulating within the United States of America."

Stand the law on its head. It applies outside the Venn Diagram of the USA, not within.

You live in Indiana, not Indian country. Indiana is a state of the United States of America, not a territory or possession such as . . . oh, geez, who could Congress be frightened of?

The statute is written to apply to those outside the United States, such as, oh, I don't know who could Congress specially be scared of during The Movie Scare of the 1950s?*

Let me think.

*Not to anger or insult anyone, just stating the motive for the law.


​

 

[Kirk Freeman]

If I've read it correctly, 1243 would not apply to us here, but 1242 certainly would.

I want to be wrong about this, but I don't see how I am.

No, you are correct.

Want to be wrong? Why, what is your concern???

Are you a knifesmith, Bill?

 

[Bill of Rights]

No, you are correct.

Want to be wrong? Why, what is your concern???

Are you a knifesmith, Bill?

No, I am not.

It seems, however, that while we in Indiana can, as of 7/1/13, possess, own, etc. switchblades, the law as written at the federal level still prevents anyone from making them for us to own.

Now, obviously, there are switchblades for sale, and the companies are not being shut down for doing so, so I'm missing something here. What is it?

 

[jedi]

??????
so did sb1 pass and the line about a school event get tossed?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

It seems, however, that while we in Indiana can, as of 7/1/13, possess, own, etc. switchblades, the law as written at the federal level still prevents anyone from making them for us to own.

Now, obviously, there are switchblades for sale, and the companies are not being shut down for doing so, so I'm missing something here. What is it?

§1242 is for the kicking team not the receiving team.

The Switchblade Legacy: http://knife-expert.com/swbl-leg.txt

 

[jason867]

what she said!

??????
so did sb1 pass and the line about a school event get tossed?

 

[dansgotguns]

what [STRIKE]she[/STRIKE] said!

HE

 

[Bill B]

what she said!

HE

It's Jedi, we're not so sure which pronoun is correct.

 

[jedi]

what she said!

HE

It's Jedi, we're not so sure which pronoun is correct.

 

[Bill of Rights]

??????
so did sb1 pass and the line about a school event get tossed?

Yes.

 

[jedi]

Yes.

& that bill has been signed!
Are you telling me we FINALLY lost the grey zone!!!!