1911 question

[45fan]

First hand witness, when my wife first started shooting handguns, I started her out with the only one I had at the time, an officer sized Springfield. Never the first issue with it then, or ever. When a friend came over to let her sample a few of his personal collection, he started her out with a 22. (a Walther PK22, if memory serves me correctly). She had fun with it, and burnt up countless rounds getting used to shooting a handgun. She stepped up to a revolver, a Smith 25-5, and enjoyed it(obviously no ejection issues there). She moved up to a 1911 after that, and proceeded to remove the center of the targets 1/2" at a time. It was so reliable and accurate for her that it quickly became almost boring. As an alternative to the big, heavy and unreliable 45 ACP and 1911, he let her shoot his EDC, a Glock 22. She proceeded to attempt to shoot, but had failure to eject issues with the first 3 rounds right off the bat. She finished the rest of that magazine without getting more than 2-3 shots off without a stoppage issue. When I brought home a Glock 26 she had very similar issues, having to shoot a few boxes worth of ammo before she was able to get through an entire mag without a stoppage. Even then, it was not an uncommon occurrence that it would jam up on her when she would try to shoot it.
Before you can say "thats because she is a girl, and was probably limp wristing it the whole time", I had the very same issue the first time I shot a glock, as did quite a few of my other friends that are fairly experienced shooters.

Where some see the 1911s dependence on maintenance a drawback, and champion the Glock as as the end all solution to everyones problems with handguns, ALL of them have strong/weak points, and as such, ALL of them are susceptible to malfunction dependent on the circumstances.

1911 fanboy? yeah, maybe just a little. But then, in another 70 years or so, when there are still first Gen Glocks still spitting lead downrange I might be a bit more inclined to think a bit more highly of them...

 

[churchmouse]

How a Handgun Works: 1911 .45 - Animagraffs

I like that.

 

[88E30M50]

True. This is part of the reason chopped 1911's have these issues. In order to make up for the loss of slide mass, they have to run the slide velocity off the chart to get the damn thing to run at all. This beats the snot out of the gun.

Another question people should be asking instead of how you can't eject a spent case slowly. Is why didn't it eject when the damn thing was fired in the first place? It should already be on the ground. Not sitting in the gun with the operator trying to jiggle it out. I guess that's just too much to ask of a $1,200.00 gun.

I find no difference in ejecting a round slowly between my compact 1911s, full size 1911s or any of my Glocks. If you draw the slide back slowly, every semi auto will dribble the round out. The compact 1911s do not intentionally run the slide faster, it just happens that way because there is less mass to move for the recoil energy generated. One of the benefits of the higher velocity is that the compact 1911s eject a case with more authority unless they have a shorter ejector to hold ejection until the slide has slowed a bit more in its cycle.

I'm not sure what your referencing on the ejection of a spent case. The OP is not talking about issues ejecting a spent case, just that the live round does not pop out when the slide is moved slowly. 1911s don't have a monopoly on ejection issues. My Glock 20sf has had more stovepipes that I ever had with my Kimber Ultra Carry. Granted, there was only one with the Glock, but that's one more than with the Kimber.

 

[billt]

I'm not sure what your referencing on the ejection of a spent case.

I'm talking about the video. He shows a Kimber chopped 1911 with the slide open, and an empty case sitting on top of the magazine. The camera later shows the student on the firing like with yet another spent case that didn't eject after firing. Both cases should have ejected when fired. That's how a semi auto pistol is supposed to operate.

 

[ghitch75]

i have a Defender with over 2k ran threw it without any FTF or jams of any kind and trust my life to it....come over and run it sometime..........i have a boat load of 1911's in every cablier but 9mm ......and oh yes the guy in the vid is a asshat as i have always said

 

[88E30M50]

I'm talking about the video. He shows a Kimber chopped 1911 with the slide open, and an empty case sitting on top of the magazine. The camera later shows the student on the firing like with yet another spent case that didn't eject after firing. Both cases should have ejected when fired. That's how a semi auto pistol is supposed to operate.

Sorry, I did not watch the video. I don't put much stock in that type of stuff. Can a small 1911 go through a 500 round course without an issue? No, probably not. But that was never a design feature of the gun. When the day comes that I carry 500 rounds on me and the average gun fight goes north of 250 rounds, I'll put my compact 1911s up and stick with either a CZ, Glock or full size 1911 but I'm guessing that will not happen in my lifetime. To me, slamming a 1911 that can not go through a 500 round course without maintenance or cleaning is like saying your an idiot if you trust a Honda to take your wife to the hospital when the baby is coming because it would not be able to complete a 500 mile race at full throttle without the engine or brakes giving out.

 

[SERparacord]

Sorry, I did not watch the video. I don't put much stock in that type of stuff. Can a small 1911 go through a 500 round course without an issue? No, probably not. But that was never a design feature of the gun. When the day comes that I carry 500 rounds on me and the average gun fight goes north of 250 rounds, I'll put my compact 1911s up and stick with either a CZ, Glock or full size 1911 but I'm guessing that will not happen in my lifetime. To me, slamming a 1911 that can not go through a 500 round course without maintenance or cleaning is like saying your an idiot if you trust a Honda to take your wife to the hospital when the baby is coming because it would not be able to complete a 500 mile race at full throttle without the engine or brakes giving out.

I bet you have never given your AR a 10,000 round torture test either. Geesh!

 

[ghitch75]

I bet you have never given your AR a 10,000 round torture test either. Geesh!

i couldn't afford it!!!!

 

[billt]

Can a small 1911 go through a 500 round course without an issue? No, probably not. But that was never a design feature of the gun......... To me, slamming a 1911 that can not go through a 500 round course without maintenance or cleaning is like saying your an idiot if you trust a Honda to take your wife to the hospital when the baby is coming because it would not be able to complete a 500 mile race at full throttle without the engine or brakes giving out.

So...You think it is unreasonable to expect a gun to be able to deliver 500 trouble free rounds? Interesting. Does your car go for a full tank of gas without crapping out?

 

[churchmouse]

So...You think it is unreasonable to expect a gun to be able to deliver 500 trouble free rounds? Interesting. Does your car go for a full tank of gas without crapping out?

Well, there was a time.....

A chopped down 1911 I would not use or carry. Officers model I have and will. Prefer Gov. model.

 

[indyblue]

How a Handgun Works: 1911 .45 - Animagraffs

I'm not sure I understand why you posted that link for me. I understand how ACP's are supposed to work, I just don't have enough experience with that platform to know the common problem areas and upgrades and that's one reason I lurk this forum.

I only mention that the HiPower design seems to alleviate the problem described in this thread. My BDM "Chucks" rounds out of the gun pretty forcefully even when the slide is operated slowly and I don't know what causes that (never really cared as long as it works and it does).

 

[SERparacord]

Well, there was a time.....

Luckily you moved out of that neighborhood.

 

[halfmileharry]

Sorry, I did not watch the video. I don't put much stock in that type of stuff. Can a small 1911 go through a 500 round course without an issue? No, probably not. But that was never a design feature of the gun. When the day comes that I carry 500 rounds on me and the average gun fight goes north of 250 rounds, I'll put my compact 1911s up and stick with either a CZ, Glock or full size 1911 but I'm guessing that will not happen in my lifetime. To me, slamming a 1911 that can not go through a 500 round course without maintenance or cleaning is like saying your an idiot if you trust a Honda to take your wife to the hospital when the baby is coming because it would not be able to complete a 500 mile race at full throttle without the engine or brakes giving out.

I have no doubts my 1911s and even my midget Ultra will do the 500 rd course. I do that about every other sunday unless the Colts are winning or at least playing good. I use good ammo and I do pull the slide off and spray them down with Remoil every couple of months unless one of them gets wet. Then it gets an immediate take down and Rem shower. Maybe once a year or 3,000-4,000 rounds I'll pull them all the way down for a clean and inspect.
AND...ALL of mine still have ALL original parts in them including springs.

 

[SERparacord]

I'm not sure I understand why you posted that link for me. I understand how ACP's are supposed to work, I just don't have enough experience with that platform to know the common problem areas and upgrades.

I only mention that the HiPower design seems to alleviate the problem described in this thread. My BDM "Chucks" rounds out of the gun pretty forcefully even when the slide is operated slowly and I don't know what causes that.

I posted it because it is purdy and moves.

 

[88E30M50]

So...You think it is unreasonable to expect a gun to be able to deliver 500 trouble free rounds? Interesting. Does your car go for a full tank of gas without crapping out?

I don't know that I'd compare a tank of gas to a 500 round training class. I expect my guns to run for thousands of trouble free rounds. The difference is in the maintenance during those rounds. Everything has a maintenance schedule and if maintained correctly, should not fail. Every one of my guns are well maintained and function exceedingly well when I feed them quality ammo once past the break in period. I'd trust each and every gun I own to defend myself and my family. Anything that is not worthy of that trust ends up getting sold. If I cannot trust it, it's no fun to shoot. If I don't enjoy shooting a gun, I tend to sell it to fund something I do enjoy and trust.

As I said above, compact and subcompact 1911s have a higher maintenance requirement and if operated within those requirements, will function fine. They don't tolerate tired springs well and can have issues when run dry and dirty when the springs are nearing the end of their life. Most classes seem to enforce a bit of a torture test of the firearm as part of the curriculum.

 

[88E30M50]

I have no doubts my 1911s and even my midget Ultra will do the 500 rd course. I do that about every other sunday unless the Colts are winning or at least playing good. I use good ammo and I do pull the slide off and spray them down with Remoil every couple of months unless one of them gets wet. Then it gets an immediate take down and Rem shower. Maybe once a year or 3,000-4,000 rounds I'll pull them all the way down for a clean and inspect.
AND...ALL of mine still have ALL original parts in them including springs.

I've never had issues with my 1911s either, but I think I tend to clean and lube them more than you do. It's good to know that I'm erroring on the side of safety in terms of lube. I've even put a drop of Slip2000 on the slide rails and bushing after 100 rounds at the range. I know it's not needed, but I do tend to run my 1911s a bit on the wet side.

 

[churchmouse]

I've never had issues with my 1911s either, but I think I tend to clean and lube them more than you do. It's good to know that I'm erroring on the side of safety in terms of lube. I've even put a drop of Slip2000 on the slide rails and bushing after 100 rounds at the range. I know it's not needed, but I do tend to run my 1911s a bit on the wet side.

You started a thread that we all ended up discussing the merits and shortcomings in owning and building up 1911's.
That came to mind when I (after getting it to run) traded the pos TAO in on the GI Springer. I then went to the Brownells site within a day of buying it and dropped $300 on all the cool bits and pieces to "Enhance" the gun. After putting the required time and love into putting those parts into the gun I have again went to Brownells and dropped $100 on a few more bits. When I am done there will be the satisfaction of knowing I did all the work and built a gun that I wanted. I have not gotten that from any other platform.

 

[rockhopper46038]

http://floridaarms.com/images/FN-Browning_Hi-Power_Schematic_with_Key.pdf

The ejector on the Hi-Power operates essentially identically to that on the 1911. There isn't any spring powered catapult in there. A visual inspection would tell the tale, but the springs on compact 1911s are out of necessity pretty stout. My money is still on probably just not racking the slide vigorously enough to catapult the round up where it can be stylishly plucked from the air.

 

[88E30M50]

You started a thread that we all ended up discussing the merits and shortcomings in owning and building up 1911's.
That came to mind when I (after getting it to run) traded the pos TAO in on the GI Springer. I then went to the Brownells site within a day of buying it and dropped $300 on all the cool bits and pieces to "Enhance" the gun. After putting the required time and love into putting those parts into the gun I have again went to Brownells and dropped $100 on a few more bits. When I am done there will be the satisfaction of knowing I did all the work and built a gun that I wanted. I have not gotten that from any other platform.

That's what keeps bringing me back to this platform as well. Unlike some of you guys, I do also own Glocks and actually like them, but for a completely different reason than the 1911s. The 1911 platform has a depth that the Glocks will never know. The Glock is an exercise in simplicity. The end result is that 95% of Glocks shoot just like any other Glock. That's a good thing but is utterly uninteresting. All of my 1911s have a distinct character when carried or shot. Even the Sig Scorpion feels different to me than the Sig railed nickel I recently bought. You would expect them to be near identical since the main difference in the two is the finish. CZs are like that too, but I don't enjoy disassembly and tweaking the CZ platform as much as I do with the 1911. The CZ has some smaller springs that require slave pins that take the fun out of working on them and the safety detent on the pre-B models strikes enough fear that I rarely detail strip those.

 

[halfmileharry]

That's what keeps bringing me back to this platform as well. Unlike some of you guys, I do also own Glocks and actually like them, but for a completely different reason than the 1911s. The 1911 platform has a depth that the Glocks will never know. The Glock is an exercise in simplicity. The end result is that 95% of Glocks shoot just like any other Glock. That's a good thing but is utterly uninteresting. All of my 1911s have a distinct character when carried or shot. Even the Sig Scorpion feels different to me than the Sig railed nickel I recently bought. You would expect them to be near identical since the main difference in the two is the finish. CZs are like that too, but I don't enjoy disassembly and tweaking the CZ platform as much as I do with the 1911. The CZ has some smaller springs that require slave pins that take the fun out of working on them and the safety detent on the pre-B models strikes enough fear that I rarely detail strip those.

I like Glock but I can't shoot them near as accurate as my quality 1911s. I bought a CZ75B and it was a lemon out of the box. I can't give the CZ a fair word based on one gun. ONE LOUSY GUN