1911 question

[halfmileharry]

I've got one of the Kimber Ultras with the tiny short 3 1/2" bbl on it and have had ZERO problems out of it. My GF runs full size 1911s and she has had a few FTF/FTEs out of the Ultra.
I think the biggest problem with the midget 1911s is form and technique.
For the record...I usually carry the full size and they conceal as well as any 1911. Even the runts.
I've had BIG guns that didn't run well, little guns that didn't run well. The point being...HAD. I don't keep a gun around that won't give me 100% dependability.
I like the Springers. Service second to none.
Grab up the Springer and don't worry about it. IF there's a problem I'm 100% positive that Springfield will take care of it.

 

[Mr Evilwrench]

EDC is a 3.5" doublestack, Para P12. Bout as 1911 as you can get without being an actual 1911. The only problem I've ever had was a couple of mag springs that needed a stretch. I have a pretty loose cheap old 1911, but using the wrong hand, my trigger finger nudges the slidelock just enough to lock it occasionally. My good ones don't do that to me.

 

[billt]

I don't see the above video as pertinent to the thread, in that no semi is going to eject while racked slowly and the video is basically an anti 1911 format piece of propaganda.......... My personal experience and an issue I have with propaganda of ANY sort. In other words, "Give me all the facts, not just those the fit your agenda".
Jim

I'm not sure how much "fact" you need? The guy has trained thousands of people, and told you flat out he has never seen one of these type of guns go through a single day of training without numerous issues and operational failures. James Yeager will tell you much the same about 1911's. That isn't "propaganda", it's plain fact. The fact you don't like hearing it doesn't make it any less a part of reality. These guys don't have an "agenda" as you put it. They're simply reporting on what they witness every day in their classes.

This is not an issue of you agreeing with them, as much as it is getting over the fact of your not willing to accept what they have witnessed throughout their many years of experience. You don't have to like these guys personally. But with that said, you can't call them liars just because they happen to observe something you don't like hearing about. Rob even has gone as far as to, "put his money where his mouth is", on this issue by offering free training and ammunition for ANYONE who completes his course with one of these guns, and doesn't have any malfunctions with it. He hasn't lost any money yet. That in itself should tell you something.

Look, I love 1911 pistols, and currently own a dozen of them. But I'm not an unrealistic fan boy, who overlooks the guns many shortcomings. It has several in full sized models. In chopped down models they're basically an operational disaster waiting to happen. I have no problem accepting that. It's what usually happens when someone tries to modify an existing firearms design into something it wasn't ever meant to be. Just because these weapons have a certain draw and popularity, doesn't make them good performing guns. If chopped 1911 pistols were reliable, I'd have one. It's as simple as that. The fact of the matter is they're not. Because of that I have and carry Glock 26's and 30's. They are not prone to malfunction the way downsized 1911 models all are.

It's one thing to have one of these abortions as a range toy, because you happen to be fascinated by it. It's downright stupid to stake your life on it, knowing it's dismal performance record. That will get you killed. Enough things can go wrong in a self defense situation. One does not need to add to it by carrying a weapon that has proven to be unreliable.

 

[churchmouse]

EDC is a 3.5" doublestack, Para P12. Bout as 1911 as you can get without being an actual 1911. The only problem I've ever had was a couple of mag springs that needed a stretch. I have a pretty loose cheap old 1911, but using the wrong hand, my trigger finger nudges the slidelock just enough to lock it occasionally. My good ones don't do that to me.

We miss our Para's. Had a P-12 and 2 P-14's one of which was a Limited. All 3 ate thousands of near trouble free rounds. The P-12 was well over 10K when we re-built it.

 

[SERparacord]

Yeager.

 

[churchmouse]

Yeager.

Snob.....

 

[SERparacord]

Snob.....

Let's see, classes full of beginners have trouble with 1911's. DUH

 

[billt]

Snob.....

Again, you can call him any name you wish. It doesn't take away his knowledge and experience. There is nothing but fact here. Additional fact is a lot of people will not digest it because of simple fan boy ignorance.

[video=youtube;HfJj90eNIfE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfJj90eNIfE[/video]

 

[billt]

Let's see, classes full of beginners have trouble with 1911's. DUH

Why don't all of these same "beginners" have the same issues with their Glocks?

 

[churchmouse]

I'm not sure how much "fact" you need? The guy has trained thousands of people, and told you flat out he has never seen one of these type of guns go through a single day of training without numerous issues and operational failures. James Yeager will tell you much the same about 1911's. That isn't "propaganda", it's plain fact. The fact you don't like hearing it doesn't make it any less a part of reality. These guys don't have an "agenda" as you put it. They're simply reporting on what they witness every day in their classes.

This is not an issue of you agreeing with them, as much as it is getting over the fact of your not willing to accept what they have witnessed throughout their many years of experience. You don't have to like these guys personally. But with that said, you can't call them liars just because they happen to observe something you don't like hearing about. Rob even has gone as far as to, "put his money where his mouth is", on this issue by offering free training and ammunition for ANYONE who completes his course with one of these guns, and doesn't have any malfunctions with it. He hasn't lost any money yet. That in itself should tell you something.

Look, I love 1911 pistols, and currently own a dozen of them. But I'm not an unrealistic fan boy, who overlooks the guns many shortcomings. It has several in full sized models. In chopped down models they're basically an operational disaster waiting to happen. I have no problem accepting that. It's what usually happens when someone tries to modify an existing firearms design into something it wasn't ever meant to be. Just because these weapons have a certain draw and popularity, doesn't make them good performing guns. If chopped 1911 pistols were reliable, I'd have one. It's as simple as that. The fact of the matter is they're not. Because of that I have and carry Glock 26's and 30's. They are not prone to malfunction the way downsized 1911 models all are.

It's one thing to have one of these abortions as a range toy, because you happen to be fascinated by it. It's downright stupid to stake your life on it, knowing it's dismal performance record. That will get you killed. Enough things can go wrong in a self defense situation. One does not need to add to it by carrying a weapon that has proven to be unreliable.

My personal experience (age 12 to 64) has been one of satisfaction with the 1911. Any gun will burp or fart on occasion and I have seen it in all of them. The only poor performance I have had is in the entry level pieces and they can be fixed if one wants to spend some time and money. Also run good ammo. I do not put cheap gas in my expensive toys....nor do I run Bravo Sierra ammo in my expensive guns. Mags are an issue in the 1911 as well. Have to know all of this going in.
No knock on any platform. They will most always go bang on at least the 1st one up in the pipe.

I have a few that I will trust in a fire fight any time.

 

[88E30M50]

Some guns do have issues with ejecting a live round but all guns tend to have issues if the round it ejected very slowly. You need a bit of slide speed to let the ejector kick the round out. On the guns that have issues with ejecting a live round, it's usually because the slide has not been cut to allow make a bit of clearance for a live round to eject. I have an Ed Brown that does not like to eject a live round cleanly. It ejects them fine, but the nose of the bullet contacts the front edge of the slide opening. My Sig has a bit of a clearance cut there and ejects them just fine. Either way, it's good to go though.

The compact 1911s are good guns. I've owned several and all have been perfectly reliable as long as you maintain them. The shorter 1911s are a lot harder on springs and the timing is more critical, so you need to pay attention to round counts and make sure you change your springs when you should. This includes mag springs. A full size 1911 slide has the luxury of time by operating a bit more slowly and can live with mag springs that are getting weak but a compact 1911 needs that round presented immediately to function well. Other than that, keep it clean and lubed and it will run fine.

 

[SERparacord]

Why don't all of these same "beginners" have the same issues with their Glocks?

 

[billt]

Your picture proves nothing. A broken gun. Big deal. What happened? What was the cause? Give 100 "beginners" Glocks, and a hundred more 1911's. Then come back and tell us who had more problems. What I find entertaining is how far these fan boys will go to defend their toys. Just be sure to cancel out all reality before entering their fantasy land.

 

[SERparacord]

Your picture proves nothing. A broken gun. Big deal. What happened? What was the cause? Give 100 "beginners" Glocks, and a hundred more 1911's. Then come back and tell us who had more problems. What I find entertaining is how far these fan boys will go to defend their toys. Just be sure to cancel out all reality before entering their fantasy land.

Like you do?

 

[billt]

Some guns do have issues with ejecting a live round but all guns tend to have issues if the round it ejected very slowly. You need a bit of slide speed to let the ejector kick the round out.

True. This is part of the reason chopped 1911's have these issues. In order to make up for the loss of slide mass, they have to run the slide velocity off the chart to get the damn thing to run at all. This beats the snot out of the gun.

Another question people should be asking instead of how you can't eject a spent case slowly. Is why didn't it eject when the damn thing was fired in the first place? It should already be on the ground. Not sitting in the gun with the operator trying to jiggle it out. I guess that's just too much to ask of a $1,200.00 gun.

 

[billt]

Like you do?

I'm not defending anything. I can live with the reality that my 6 Glocks are far more reliable than my 12, 1911's. I have no trouble digesting fact. You?.......Keep drinking the Kool-Aid. At least it tastes good.

 

[SERparacord]

I'm not defending anything. I can live with the reality that my 6 Glocks are far more reliable than my 12, 1911's. I have no trouble digesting fact. You?.......Keep drinking the Kool-Aid. At least it tastes good.

Carry on fan boy.

 

[indyblue]

This is an interesting thread for me as I don't yet own a 1911 and need to know issues like this exist. But this same test with my Browning BDM (HiPower based) throws out the round pretty well. I think there must be a an assist spring somewhere in the ejector mechanism on these.

What happens if you hold the gun with the ejection port pointing down towards the floor? Maybe gravity will make up for the lack of momentum and let it eject properly at slow speed.

 

[churchmouse]

This is all pretty funny. The oldest 1911 I own is one that my Uncle carried in Korea and all through the Nam. Actually both Uncles (army Rangers) carried 1911's. Both attested to the reliability of the platform. Both used them extensively in battle conditions. Both attest they never....ever let them down when it counted.
Would they say the same of a sig/glock/M&P etc......have no idea because these were not available then. I am sure any of them would have worked.
Neither of these men were a fan of anything 9mm. This was who trained me to shoot/fight/run away and hide. All of those disciplines have served me very well.

I have personally seen failures in many different gun models/Marques.....They are machines. They are made by men and inherently will have failures at some point. Still waiting on this from the 1911's in the safe and my EDC holster.
To each their own opinion. Experiences vary.

 

[SERparacord]

This is an interesting thread for me as I don't yet own a 1911 and need to know issues like this exist. But this same test with my Browning BDM (HiPower based) throws out the round pretty well. I think there must be a an assist spring somewhere in the ejector mechanism on these.

What happens if you hold the gun with the ejection port pointing down towards the floor? Maybe gravity will make up for the lack of momentum and let it eject properly at slow speed.

How a Handgun Works: 1911 .45 - Animagraffs