1911 Build Party?

[Ricnzak]

I would be interested to attend and learn. Is there a location and time out yet?

 

[Wabatuckian]

That's what we're looking at right now, Ricnzak.

Chris, this is just a basic, basic class, little more than detail stripping.

I will have a set of stones and files there, but I really doubt they'll see much, if any, use. Drop-in is the name of the game on this one due to time constraints.

On the other hand, the 1911 simply is not the hardest handgun to work on. You are right in that new sears and hammers should be angled correctly using jigs and fixtures -- and I believe strongly that this goes for any so-called "drop-in" parts as well -- but we're simply not going there.

One of the most neglected areas on the 1911 are the springs. I've seen some literally shot to pieces because the springs were never changed from when they were new. Maintenance requires a recoil spring change every 5k rounds max for a government model, and correspondingly more as the slide mass is reduced.

The 1911 is a good weapon, and yes, it does take knowledge to work on it, but it's not the complicated beast that many companies make it out to be. Those companies stand to make lots of money off of the myth that the 1911 is somehow more complicated than most pistols.

Josh

 

[bwframe]

Chris, this is just a basic, basic class, little more than field stripping.

I'd like to see detailed tear down and assembly. Maybe with some overhead large views. Tips on how to hold your mouth right and assemble without needing three hands, loosing parts, or scratching parts up. Tips on how to shop test your gun, without firing, for function and safety, and if this can actually be trusted for your carry gun.

I'd like to see the first one be pretty much that. Leave metal removal for future more detailed parties (or maybe after the party.) In other words, not get bogged down. Some of us are slow and have to see things a few times to get it.twocents:

 

[Wabatuckian]

Hey BW,

I mistyped. I should have said "detail strip" instead of "field strip."

What I'd like to do is have everyone bring a 1911 and complete Wolff Spring Kit. We'd tear 'em down, replace any drop-in parts that folks would like to drop-in (like triggers, though they can require a little fitting, wouldn't be a big deal I don't think), replace all springs and tweak 'em, the put everything back together.

When ChrisK says

Because of the training I can install a beaver tail (cutting the tangs with a saw and then using a file to finish). I just installed a 10-8 flat trigger on my STI, took me 45 min total.

I have no idea if he's bragging, trying to warn that people without C&S's training cannot do this type of work, or volunteering. I very much hope it's this last as I'd like to try to have an instructor for every person there.

I too have installed and fitted several beavertails, have the jig to do it, and installing triggers is not a big deal, either. You just have to take the time to learn to do it; I learned from an old gunsmith before he died, and then went on with that knowledge base to keep learning.

That said, installing a beavertail is some work, and unless the radius is already cut, we won't have time.

Josh

 

[Johnny C]

All of those, except the fitting of the beavertail, can be done. We'll tear down the 1911 all the way and you can drop in and adjust the trigger at that point.

If the frame has a radius already, the beavertail would be a semi-drop in. Can you take a pic, and I'll tell you?

Cutting the frame for a beavertail would be too much for the class, unless there's someone here with a portable CNC. Then it could be done pretty danged fast. I personally took eight hours to fit mine just because I'm OCD like that.

By timing, what do you mean? In other words, why do you believe your timing is off?

The breech should optimally stay closed until the bullet exits the barrel. Different weight springs and different length links will affect this, but unless the springs have been changed or the link is not the right one, it should be good to go. You could have badly cut lugs causing it to unlock too soon, but I wouldn't expect that on a good production gun.

Are you experiencing firing pin wipe?

Do your spent shells look like this?

If not, you're probably OK, esp with a long slide.

Josh

No reasons to think the timing is off, just one of the things I would like to learn how to check

No firing pin wipes either.

The beavertail was a standard colt with a wierd radius. I fitted a "drop in" beavertail that fit without cutting, but it just looks cheap.
it looks like the bottom gun in this pic:

http://image26.webshots.com/26/9/77/40/378097740JpDvxs_ph.jpg

Here is my issue: I have five 1911 style pistols. I have experienced issues with all of them and I have decided to get them all in order before I even consider getting another one. I have sent 2 of them to Tussey custom for work, so that leaves 3 to be worked through.
I suppose I could just find a Smith in the area and have him do the work, but I would like to learn more about the 1911, at least so i know what issues could be easialy remedied and how to do it.

 

[ChrisK]

Hey BW,

I mistyped. I should have said "detail strip" instead of "field strip."

What I'd like to do is have everyone bring a 1911 and complete Wolff Spring Kit. We'd tear 'em down, replace any drop-in parts that folks would like to drop-in (like triggers, though they can require a little fitting, wouldn't be a big deal I don't think), replace all springs and tweak 'em, the put everything back together.

When ChrisK says



I have no idea if he's bragging, trying to warn that people without C&S's training cannot do this type of work, or volunteering. I very much hope it's this last as I'd like to try to have an instructor for every person there.












I too have installed and fitted several beavertails, have the jig to do it, and installing triggers is not a big deal, either. You just have to take the time to learn to do it; I learned from an old gunsmith before he died, and then went on with that knowledge base to keep learning.

That said, installing a beavertail is some work, and unless the radius is already cut, we won't have time.

Josh

Did not intend to sound like I am braging. Having the proper tools is the key. Knowing how to use them is a must. I have seen people distroy good parts with to much filing. If you have good mechanical skills you can do the work.

 

[OD*]

Did not intend to sound like I am braging.

I certainly didn't take it that way, everything you said is true.

Having the proper tools is the key. Knowing how to use them is a must.

That is a fact, especially if you don't want your gun looking like Bubba worked on it in the backyard.

I have seen people distroy good parts with to much filing.

And Dremels. Always work on the cheap parts first.

 

[snowman46919]

I am really wanting to do a 1911 build but I have been kind of stand offish about it. Looking at all the variants of 1911s available and the fact that I want to start from the ground up it would seem like buying a low end to mid grade may be the best place to start but it seems like there is no middle ground on pricing. Are RIA 1911s really that horrible? Can they be built to be solid? Am I just better off saving more pennies and getting a STI or Springfield?

 

[Wabatuckian]

I am really wanting to do a 1911 build but I have been kind of stand offish about it. Looking at all the variants of 1911s available and the fact that I want to start from the ground up it would seem like buying a low end to mid grade may be the best place to start but it seems like there is no middle ground on pricing. Are RIA 1911s really that horrible? Can they be built to be solid? Am I just better off saving more pennies and getting a STI or Springfield?

The RIA is more than serviceable!

Josh

 

[Wabatuckian]

I certainly didn't take it that way, everything you said is true.That is a fact, especially if you don't want your gun looking like Bubba worked on it in the backyard. And Dremels. Always work on the cheap parts first.

Dremels... eh... they can be used to great effect, in my experience.

That said, I've found only one valid use for them when it comes to the 1911, and that is zapping off the tangs with a cutting wheel as long as a jig is in place. I prefer the extra control of a vice holding the frame and two hands holding the Dremel over that of a hacksaw.

That said, I can think of no other valid use for them. Files, stones and wet/dry sandpaper are my preferred tools.

Josh

 

[snowman46919]

The RIA is more than serviceable!

Josh

looks like 1911 is on the list with the silencerco sparrow now

 

[IndyGunworks]

Yes, i know 1911's and ill help teach... IF.... its within a reasonable drive of Indy. and its a day i am available IE not working at the fire department.

i have EVERYthing we need for the basic AND advanced skills. Ill even bring my chamber reamer if anyone wants to install a gunsmith fit barrel... i could devote at least one 8 hour day to this class and can give one on one lessons.

someone just needs to PM me some details.

 

[Wabatuckian]

Yes, i know 1911's and ill help teach... IF.... its within a reasonable drive of Indy. and its a day i am available IE not working at the fire department.

i have EVERYthing we need for the basic AND advanced skills. Ill even bring my chamber reamer if anyone wants to install a gunsmith fit barrel... i could devote at least one 8 hour day to this class and can give one on one lessons.

someone just needs to PM me some details.

Thanks!

We're working out the details right here. My brother's getting married this spring in Boston, and I'll be working around that.

So it's a matter of figuring a month, then a day. It will likely be in Ft Wayne as was volunteered on the first page, so about 2 to 2.5 hours from you on I69.

Josh

 

[IndyGunworks]

Fort wayne is pushing it distance wise... i only get 12 miles per gallon, but i might be able to make it work

 

[Johnny C]

Ft wayne?

I guess I missunderstood. I thought it was the west side of Indy.

 

[snowman46919]

Quick question.. is there a 22 conversion that works with the Rock Island for sure? I have heard the colt will work.

 

[alloyguitar]

I'd be really interested. I've been looking at the sarco kits/frames and whatnot, and read a little on brownells about how to build one, but I'm new to the 1911 game, so I'm not sure what's involved, as well as what tools would be needed and whatnot.

 

[Wabatuckian]

I'd be really interested. I've been looking at the sarco kits/frames and whatnot, and read a little on brownells about how to build one, but I'm new to the 1911 game, so I'm not sure what's involved, as well as what tools would be needed and whatnot.

Hello ALL,

This would not be a ground-up build, as that can take a couple days and a lot of skill is involved. IMO, not for someone new to the 1911.

Your best bet would be to get a Rock Island Armory or similar pistol and decide what you want to do with it. We would change springs, install new triggers, etc, but barrel-to-slide fit and slide-to-frame fit are what takes a lot of time here.

So, again folks, plan on getting a spring package from Wolff. We'll go through a complete tear down and replace all springs. Triggers could be replaced here as well, but let's stick with the basics.

On my calender:

Next week I start teaching in public schools again. This is to fund classes in EMT or Paramedic. I do not yet know when those will be held.

I will be in Boston and New Hampshire for two weeks near the end of May/beginning of April for my brother's wedding. I will not be available then, obviously.

At the beginning of the thread, the use of a clubhouse in FORT WAYNE was offered, and I know of no other place where we can gather, so we should assume the FORT WAYNE AREA at this point.

This is looking like it will be hard to get together. Too much confusion. I'd still like to do it though... maybe we should take a new role call.

What say you?

Josh

 

[alloyguitar]

Ah, I apologize. I must have overlooked that part of this thread.

 

[Ricnzak]

I live in Noblesville a suburb on the North side of Indy. I would be willing to let everyone meet here and either use my garages or turn the house into a meeting center. I have more than enough room. I'll supply the burgers and grill.

I'm a member of Hamilton County Fish & Game were we could shoot after and try out what we have done. It's about 5 minutes from my house. I may be able to even check with the board to see if we could meet there. It would depend on their event schedule. I have folding tables I could bring or use. Depending on where we end up we may need some chairs.

If we do this in Ft. Wayne Indy Gun Works is more than welcome to ride with me and my son, (I'm sure Zack will want to attend.) I may even have room for one more. And if some of you don't mind riding in the bed of the truck with the cap on the sky is the limit.

Josh or Indy Gun Works, I will need to get with one of you for advice as to what I will need to purchase spring wise prior to the event. I am very new to the 1911 format. I was looking at this thread the other day but didn't know enough to make a educated guess if it was items I would use over time.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/parts_and_accessories/128130-wolfe_1911_recoil_springs.html

If help is needed to coordinate this event just let me know. If you want to PM me e-mail addresses I can start a spread sheet with contact information and issues each would like to address.

Rick