Sighting in the 6.5 Grendel (again)

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  • melensdad

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    I'm planning to bring one of my AR15s chambered in 6.5 Grendel to the INGO shoot in July ==> https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/ingo_events/94620-07_11_10_nwi_meet_and_shoot.html But, idiot me realized that I had taken the mount off last year and swapped it around with another gun, then put it back on this gun. Last thing I wanted to do was show up at the shoot with a Grendel that wouldn't hit a piece of paper at 7 yards.

    P1000047.jpg

    So despite the high winds we were having earlier this afternoon I went out into my muddy farm field and put up some targets to see where the shots would land. I was only about 70 yards from the target so these groups would probably open up about a 1/4" at 100 yards. I was shooting without any support under the buttstock, but had the front bi-pod sitting on a lightweight bench that is in my field. After every 4 or 5 rounds the bi-pod would rattle itself pretty loose from recoil . . . got to get some Loc-Tight on that screw!

    I didn't want to use waste my expensive $1 to $1.50 a round Grendel ammo so I broke out two different types of "Wolf Gold" ammo for sighting in the scope. First up was the 123 Grain Soft Point Wolf, this stuff is typically known to shoot about 1 MOA if you are lucky on a good day, and 2 MOA groups are not uncommon. This stuff runs about 50-cents a shot delivered if you buy it in bulk. If it were legal here in Indiana, this would probably be a heck of a deer round, its plenty accurate for deer and the soft point expands.

    So with a scope that was taken off the gun and put back on, I went out to see if the scope mount held its zero. Needless to say I'm pretty pleased with this mount. Its an American Defense with a cam lock that lets you take it off and remount it pretty easily. Not the most expensive mount out there, but this is a fun gun that I built. Probably going to take it down south for a feral hog hunt.

    The two flyers were just me being an idiot. 10 shots, 8 are within an inch.
    P1000045.jpg


    Wind picked up a bit and I switched to Wolf Gold 120 grain rounds, these are roughly 70-to-75 cents a shot and is generally considered pretty accurate. 10 shot group size is about 1.25" across. I fired 5, reloaded the magazine, fired 5 more.
    P1000044.jpg
     

    melensdad

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    Pretty nice. My friend is building one of those. Hopefully he'll let me shoot it once or twice.

    You'll want one once you shoot one!!! The 6.5 Grendel very quickly became my favorite round for shooting out of an AR15. Only a bit more recoil than the 5.56 but a ton more downrange energy applied to the target, inherent accuracy and it stays supersonic out past 1000 yards so its capable of remaining accurate out to long ranges. For hunting it puts the same amount of energy (measured in ft lbs) on target at 400 yards as a 6.8 SPC will put on target at 225 yards so you get almost double the effective hunting distances out of the Grendel and you get it without the pressure problems that plague the 6.8 SPC round.
     
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    melensdad

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    To put things into perspective for those not familiar with the round I made up this little graphic. The AR15 has a very short action and consequently to maximize the gun's potential you are constrained by its pressure limits and its chamber length limits. The four rounds on the left size of the graphic are all capable of firing through the AR15. Both the 6.5 Grendel and the 458 Socom were designed to feed, function through AR15 magazines and actions. The 7.62x39 Russian round is pretty close to the same length and will also feed reasonably well through the AR15.

    P1000054.jpg


    I put the 308 Win round on the far right just give folks some form of reference.

    Ballistically the 6.5 Grendel exceeds the velocity and energy numbers of the 308 when distances hit/exceed 800 to 1000 yards., but at short ranges the 308 is superior.
     

    Colt556

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    Holy Cow that 458 looks awesome. But the Grendel sounds like a great option. I know Allen's rifle looks and feels great. Wish he'd finish it!!! jk :)
     

    melensdad

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    Pretty nice groups for wolf ammo

    I was really surprised by the 123 grain soft point Wolf. I've never had it group this well out of any of my rifles. I currently have 2 6.5 Grendels, used to have 3 AR15s in the 6.5 Grendel but 2 were so similar that I sold one of them. So this outing with the 123 grain SP was pretty outstanding. The 120 grain Wolf usually performs very well for me.

    Again, these groups were not shot off of a sand bags or a rest so that makes them that much better because I don't consider myself a very good shooter with a rifle. This gun has a Charles Daly Defense lower with factory trigger group, its the best trigger of any mil-spec type AR15 that I've ever shot, but it is not as good as any 2 stage target trigger, my Timney trigger, etc.

    The ONLY thing I don't like about this gun is the gill brake on the muzzle. Its LOUD. Scares the heck out of my dog when I shoot this gun, and when I remember I wear ear plugs AND ear muffs.
     

    Woodrow

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    Ordering my Beowulf upper next month (I hope...damn real world stuff all messing up my gun plans!).

    Alexander Arms has produced about the baddest two "alternative" calibers I've seen for the AR. The Grendel is just incredible, and the Beowulf...well. Don't get me wrong, the 6.8 Rem is a superior round for expanding cranium through terrycloth, and the .458 is great, really a devastating round, but the Beowulf is a .50...I mean, ballistics aside, "whose .50 M4 is this? Are engine blocks in season so early this year?" It's a .50!
     

    melensdad

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    . . . the 6.8 Rem is a superior round for expanding cranium through terrycloth. . .

    I would debate that point with you. It is certainly much better than a 5.56 NATO round but it falls short compared to everything else out there and its got some serious pressure problems with many of the loads that actually perform well. Over at the 6.8 forums they often show photos with cupped primer hits (sign of dangerous over pressure) as well as flattened primers (another sign of dangerous over pressure). Seems to me that at legitimate SAAMI pressures it is a dramatic under performer but it sure has great hype.
     

    aclark

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    I just wanna say I like the yellow. :thatshot:

    btw mdgerf and I were just talking about you today, and how you are probably the biggest advocate FOR the 6.5 and AGAINST the 6.8 :drill:

    Oh and you and ZbornacSVT make me want a 6.5 sooooo bad!
     

    melensdad

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    I just wanna say I like the yellow. :thatshot:

    btw mdgerf and I were just talking about you today, and how you are probably the biggest advocate FOR the 6.5 and AGAINST the 6.8 :drill:

    Oh and you and ZbornacSVT make me want a 6.5 sooooo bad!

    Just trying to tell it like it is. The 6.8 is a good round, I've said that many times. But it is not what it is hyped to be. I had one INGO site supporter and FFL dealer tell me that it matched the ballistics of the 308. I pressed him for more information and said that is what the gun maker told him. I showed him a trajectory drop chart and showed him that the bullet drop of the 6.8 is very similar to the 308. But I also showed him ballistics charts that showed velocity and energies of the 6.8 and he quickly retracted his words!

    I'm not against the 6.8 at all. I am, however, not going to sit back and let people fall for the lies. Heck even Stag Arms, in one of their recent catalogs made WILD CLAIMS about the 6.8 that I was easily able to prove were wrong.

    Anyone notice the factory loads for the 6.8 now? Many of the claims for energy and velocity have actually been recast to lower levels. Out to a couple hundred yards the 6.8 is a good round. At any distance the 6.8 is offering more energy than the 5.56. So it is a good round for what it is, its just that facts show it has its limits.
     

    AllenM

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    I ordered some 120 gr ammo to break my barrel in with and see how well the gun likes it. But from your post here I will keep an eye out for some wolf to compare with as well
     

    melensdad

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    . . . But from your post here I will keep an eye out for some wolf to compare with as well

    I had a 24" barrelled Alexander Arms Overwatch model in 6.5 Grendel that spit the 123 grain Wolf soft points all over the paper, that gun did NOT like the 123 grain Wolf.

    So buy some, try it, and if it works for you then buy more.

    The Wolf rounds are pretty scarce right now so good luck finding it, but if you find it and if your gun likes it, its shoots at less than 1/2 the price of the AA or Black Hills loaded ammo.
     

    AllenM

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    Gotcha, I am hoping I get good accuracy out of this barrel. If not at least all I will have to do is upgrade the barrel
    I am looking forward to developing a load for this.
    That is one of the things I do best.
    My initial intentions are for a bullet between 100 and 120 gr. But it has been discouraging finding Brass. With time it will come around though.
    Since I don't have a carbine 6.5 I will be happy with 300 to 400 rounds for this gun :)
     

    melensdad

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    If you are looking for load development brass then stay away from Wolf. Wolf brass uses large rifle primers, the brass from Lapua, Black Hills, AA and Hornady all use small rifle primes and are all more consistent in weight. (Lapua makes the brass for Black Hills ammo and AA ammo). Hornady reportedly made up 500,000 rounds of 6.5 Grendel which was intended to last about a half year, it sold out in a couple weeks. Finding that stuff may be tough but its reported to be very good.
     

    AllenM

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    I have 100 rounds of Hornady loaded ammo coming, and another 100 pcs of brass that I am high bidder on as of right now. Verified it is in stock. The first loaded ammo I am going to use it for break in then for load work up.
    Also the lapua I learned has a smaller flash hole that the Hornady so to be careful decapping them. But I have not found any Lapua (my first choice in brass) but have heard good reports on the Hornady so I will work with that since I can find it.
     

    Woodrow

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    I would debate that point with you. It is certainly much better than a 5.56 NATO round but it falls short compared to everything else out there...but it sure has great hype.

    I must clarify, I didn't say it was THE superior round--I'm not big on superlatives--only that it is A superior round. The 5.56 has done it's time and has been proven effective, but it is a varmint round. My main point was that the 6.8 Rem is superior to the Beowulf in a "hastening the journey back to Hajj" sort of way. Obviously a big .50 round ball is going to put a hell of a dent in anything that finds itself down range. Me personally though, I would prefer a magazine full of 6.8 Rem to a single stack box of Beo. Also, the 6.8 is receiving actual consideration in US testing. We can all name the best rounds on the block and why--whether personal favoritism or our own choice of hard data. I am personally glad that there are legitimate alternatives to the 5.56. We all know that the .308 is a hell of a round, but it will never succeed the smaller round as standard. The days of 7.62 rounds being the standard fare are long gone. The Grendel is an incredible round, far superior to the 6.8 Rem, but I can't see the Grendel making a serious play for the US military.
     

    melensdad

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    . . . the 6.8 is receiving actual consideration in US testing. . . The Grendel is an incredible round, far superior to the 6.8 Rem, but I can't see the Grendel making a serious play for the US military.
    The 6.8 was rejected by the military, as was the 6.5.

    Honestly I do not see the military moving away from the 5.56. There is a new iteration of the 5.56 that has been approved after 1,000,000+ rounds of testing and was just announced for full scale production and use by the troops.

    I think the SOCOM project was doomed for the same reason that an alternate caliber was doomed. Too much cost, trouble and logical issues to change something that is so heavily invested in for essentially very little battle situation improvement.




    I'm liking the yellow!
    Me too!
     
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