Ranges prohibit shooting from holster

[rstocum]

New member - first post on this site.

I'm looking for the sense behind an issue that is just starting to affect my shooting situation. I had been going to the IDNR range at Wilbur Wright near New Castle for some years. Late last year they posted these two signs saying that concealed carry on the range was now banned, and practicing drawing and shooting from a holster was now banned. I started a search for a new range at that time.

I found a local private Indy range on the West side that looked great, but when I asked them about their range rules they said the same thing. No practicing drawing and shooting from a holster!

There is a conservation club north of town where I could draw and shoot from the holster, but they require NRA membership and helping out at least twice with events they hold on weekends. You also need to be sponsored by an existing member. That is a bit much for me. I want to think that signing a code of conduct, a liability release, and paying dues ought to be enough.

But wait, there's more... We have shall issue concealed carry in Indiana, presumably because the state recognizes that citizens should be able to defend their own lives, and that carrying concealed so that the bad guys don't know who is armed can be a good thing. Why would the state (through IDNR) prohibit citizens from practicing drawing from concealed carry? This denies those citizens the ability to practice those skills which make or keep their concealed carry as effective as possible.

Is this an insurance company issue? Do the private range and the IDNR range deny concealed carry rights and practice options because their insurance company tells them it's too much of a risk to allow it?

It feels like part of a movement to deny second amendment rights by any other means, now that the anti's know the 2nd amendment isn't going anywhere, and Heller is in place to bolster that.

Can anyone help me make sense of this? Anyone able to recommend a range that allows folks to draw and shoot from the holster, and isn't a pain to join?

 

[monitor51]

Got me I'm sure there is reasoning behind it, logical or not.

 

[Bubbajms]

It's a safety thing, really.. too easy for some bonehead to shoot the guy next to him while drawing. Since not everyone can be safe, they have to make rules that protect one and all

 

[samrothstein01]

I believe many ranges ban this because of safety/insurance. Drawing from the holster implies the said persons have proper technique and know not to put the finger on the bang switch until it is appropriate. However, I believe many ranges experienced folks who were trying to move a little to fast, be a little "too cool", or simply beyond their capabilities, and ended up sending rounds towards or into their or their neighbors feet, etc. Just my thoughts on the subject.

 

[rimfire_crazed]

Many of my fellow shooters have firearms handling skills that can be charitably described as "lacking".

If my range(s) allowed shooting from the holster, two things would happen.

1. I'd be shooting at the other end of the range
2. Someone would get hurt.

 

[Westside]

Safety....Safety.....Safety.

I will leave this here as evidence (warning Graphic language not Child friendly)
http://youtu.be/zYvAxLX6OzE



Could just easily been the guy in the lane next to him!!!!

 

[JettaKnight]

Practice drawing at home with snap caps. Practice shooting at the range.

Or, join a private range. Safety is disregarded enough that I don't need to worry about the moron next to me practicing live draw and fire drills. While, yes, I would like to practice draw and fire drills and rapid fire at Roush, I'm fi9ne with the rules as-is.

 

[Landon]

^^^Beat me to it


Honestly whats the need is my question? You can practice your draw from holster or concealment at home. You don't need a loaded gun to practice your draw. You can draw and point safely at home to practice. The range IMHO is for practicing hitting your target after the gun is already pointed.

If you carried concealed how would IDNR know if you were or not, unless you pulled it out for some reason.

 

[Westside]

Since you are a new member you should also introduce yourself in the introductions and greeting section. Introductions and Greetings - INGunOwners
I would also suggest reading the FAQ https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...discussion/16185-ingunowners_faqs_sticky.html
(yes INGO has a FAQ )

Now let me address some things point by point.

New member - first post on this site.

I'm looking for the sense behind an issue that is just starting to affect my shooting situation. I had been going to the IDNR range at Wilbur Wright near New Castle for some years. Late last year they posted these two signs saying that concealed carry on the range was now banned, and practicing drawing and shooting from a holster was now banned. I started a search for a new range at that time.

I found a local private Indy range on the West side that looked great, but when I asked them about their range rules they said the same thing. No practicing drawing and shooting from a holster!
You are referring to MCF&G, where I am a member. They are a no drawing from holster range. This is for the safety of everyone at the range and insurance reasons. Just like most every range you have already mentioned.

There is a conservation club north of town where I could draw and shoot from the holster, but they require NRA membership and helping out at least twice with events they hold on weekends. You also need to be sponsored by an existing member. That is a bit much for me. I want to think that signing a code of conduct, a liability release, and paying dues ought to be enough.
This club allows you to draw from the holster because of the strict rules to join the club. many of the competitions , Steel Challenge for example, require drawing from a holster. So, requiring new members to participate in these events demonstrates they know how to safely draw and fire a weapon.


But wait, there's more... We have shall issue concealed carry in Indiana, presumably because the state recognizes that citizens should be able to defend their own lives, and that carrying concealed so that the bad guys don't know who is armed can be a good thing.
Indiana has a "license to carry a handgun" it does not specify open or concealed. That choice is left open to the person carrying the weapon.
Why would the state (through IDNR) prohibit citizens from practicing drawing from concealed carry? This denies those citizens the ability to practice those skills which make or keep their concealed carry as effective as possible.
IN one word Liability...who is responsible if you shoot someone on the range. you, the organization providing the range, or both?

Is this an insurance company issue? Do the private range and the IDNR range deny concealed carry rights and practice options because their insurance company tells them it's too much of a risk to allow it?
In a word "yes" the increased cost of insurance makes it an easier decision to prohibit drawing from a holster.

It feels like part of a movement to deny second amendment rights by any other means, now that the anti's know the 2nd amendment isn't going anywhere, and Heller is in place to bolster that.
it's not.

Can anyone help me make sense of this? Anyone able to recommend a range that allows folks to draw and shoot from the holster, and isn't a pain to join?

Hope this helped.

 

[eldirector]

So, the question becomes: Where can we practice defensive shooting?

Lots of ranges (all of them?) allow non-defensive, precision target shooting. Unfortunately, that just reinforces bad defensive shooting habits.

 

[jetmechG550]

I have an airsoft replica of my EDC, it fits perfectly in the holsters I have for it and the replica is all metal. I can draw and shoot in my garage, basement, kitchen or wherever without worry. I thought I read recently that a certain law enforcement office was banning the use of certain Serpa holsters because of they felt the way that you pushed a button to remove the firearm from the holster placed the trigger finger in a position to discharge early. I am not saying it is any one holster to blame but there's too much margin for error when it comes to people wanting draw/shoot at a range with other around.

 

[OneBadV8]

I have an airsoft replica of my EDC, it fits perfectly in the holsters I have for it and the replica is all metal. I can draw and shoot in my garage, basement, kitchen or wherever without worry. I thought I read recently that a certain law enforcement office was banning the use of certain Serpa holsters because of they felt the way that you pushed a button to remove the firearm from the holster placed the trigger finger in a position to discharge early. I am not saying it is any one holster to blame but there's too much margin for error when it comes to people wanting draw/shoot at a range with other around.

This along with dry-fire practice will make things a lot easier if you can't find a place to draw and shoot from a holster that fits your level of commitment.

 

[rockhopper46038]

I've been looking for the right air soft pistol to replicate my EDC's, just for this reason. Threadjack Alert Threadjack Alert

There are a lot of Airsoft manufacturers/sellers out there; anyone have a recommendation on a great 1911 and/or SIG P228 Airsoft replica pistol? I want an authentically operating one, as much as that is possible, and would part with a couple hundred bucks to get a nice one versus the $60 or so a cheap one goes for. Any recommendations?

 

[DadOfFour]

Like others have said, it's a safety issue. Haven't you been to the range and seen some guy who's acting a fool? Well, at least his muzzle is downrange (hopefully) With draw from the holster there's too many cases where the muzzle isn't downrange, it's just asking for trouble. Think about it this way, I occasionally carry in the small of my back (not often because of the safety concerns) now, I'm right handed, and I'm in the bay to your left practicing drawing and shooting. Every time I draw, or holster my weapon the muzzle is going to sweep the guy to my left, anyone behind me, and you as I bring my weapon around to down range....what happens if I "jump the gun" cause I'm hurrying and get my finger on the trigger too early.....you really want me practicing that move next to you?

Personally, I practice my draw and shoot in my back yard, course, I live in the country and can shoot in my back yard, lots of people don't, but there are other options as have been mentioned here.

 

[DadOfFour]

I've been looking for the right air soft pistol to replicate my EDC's, just for this reason. Threadjack Alert Threadjack Alert

There are a lot of Airsoft manufacturers/sellers out there; anyone have a recommendation on a great 1911 and/or SIG P228 Airsoft replica pistol? I want an authentically operating one, as much as that is possible, and would part with a couple hundred bucks to get a nice one versus the $60 or so a cheap one goes for. Any recommendations?

I've got a 1911 airsoft gun, really nice, C02 powered blow back. It's designed on the P14, so it's a "double stack" I haven't played in eons, but the thing is still in a closet somewhere, PM me if you want info. /End ThreadJack lol

 

[OneBadV8]

I've been looking for the right air soft pistol to replicate my EDC's, just for this reason. Threadjack Alert Threadjack Alert

There are a lot of Airsoft manufacturers/sellers out there; anyone have a recommendation on a great 1911 and/or SIG P228 Airsoft replica pistol? I want an authentically operating one, as much as that is possible, and would part with a couple hundred bucks to get a nice one versus the $60 or so a cheap one goes for. Any recommendations?

Would a Blue Gun (Training Gun/Barrel) work for you also?

Blueguns: Train Safe and Train Smart - FSP228 SIG P228
Training Barrel :: Training Accessories :: Blade-Tech Industries

 

[Bubbajms]

Anybody know anything about the laser snapcap & target combo kits? Looks like you pull trigger and the target shows electronically where you hit.. may be a viable option for training..

 

[OneBadV8]

Anybody know anything about the laser snapcap & target combo kits? Looks like you pull trigger and the target shows electronically where you hit.. may be a viable option for training..

This thing?

Laser Training Target System

 

[youngda9]

You can probably go from the low-ready position, bring your gun up, and fire at almost any range. Getting from the holster to the low-ready position can be perfected at home with an un-loaded firearm. Practice the drawing, acquiring sight picture, and (dry)firing all in one step at home. No need to have a bunch of people at the range firing rounds into the ground, their legs, and into the neighboring stall. Too many wanna-be commandos out there would be causing all sorts of problems if this was allowed.

 

[rockhopper46038]

Anybody know anything about the laser snapcap & target combo kits? Looks like you pull trigger and the target shows electronically where you hit.. may be a viable option for training..

I have used the laser pointer, snap cap and target set up and it's certainly not bad, but I think it is much better for DAO/Safe Action - as you can imagine, after the first trigger pull on a 1911 or a SIGP228, it rapidly becomes sort of useless. One shot draws from holsters might be ok, but my system stuck out of the pistol too much for it to work well with my holsters.