Ranges prohibit shooting from holster

[fullmetaljesus]

New member - first post on this site.

I'm looking for the sense behind an issue that is just starting to affect my shooting situation. I had been going to the IDNR range at Wilbur Wright near New Castle for some years. Late last year they posted these two signs saying that concealed carry on the range was now banned, and practicing drawing and shooting from a holster was now banned. I started a search for a new range at that time.

I found a local private Indy range on the West side that looked great, but when I asked them about their range rules they said the same thing. No practicing drawing and shooting from a holster!

There is a conservation club north of town where I could draw and shoot from the holster, but they require NRA membership and helping out at least twice with events they hold on weekends. You also need to be sponsored by an existing member. That is a bit much for me. I want to think that signing a code of conduct, a liability release, and paying dues ought to be enough.

But wait, there's more... We have shall issue concealed carry in Indiana, presumably because the state recognizes that citizens should be able to defend their own lives, and that carrying concealed so that the bad guys don't know who is armed can be a good thing. Why would the state (through IDNR) prohibit citizens from practicing drawing from concealed carry? This denies those citizens the ability to practice those skills which make or keep their concealed carry as effective as possible.

Is this an insurance company issue? Do the private range and the IDNR range deny concealed carry rights and practice options because their insurance company tells them it's too much of a risk to allow it?

It feels like part of a movement to deny second amendment rights by any other means, now that the anti's know the 2nd amendment isn't going anywhere, and Heller is in place to bolster that.

Can anyone help me make sense of this? Anyone able to recommend a range that allows folks to draw and shoot from the holster, and isn't a pain to join?

This is not a shall issue conceal carry state, this is a shall issue carry state, the state does not care if you open or conceal carry. Which is why we have a License to carry a hand gun. and not a Permit to conceal carry.

 

[jetmechG550]

Airsplat has a good selection. Look under gas blowback pistols and you may find something. I have a 229 I carry and I bought the adapter to use the 1lb propane bottles instead of green gas

 

[mrortega]

It's definitely a safety thing and not a plot by the JBTs or black ops guys. I was at one of my ranges the other day and there was one other person there. I did some drawing and firing. But before I did I asked the other guy if he had a problem. He said he didn't and I said I would only be drawing slowly and carefully pointing. He was good with that. Also you don't have to shoot each time you draw. You'd better not get in the habit of automatically letting a couple fly each time you clear plastic. Be prepared for the situation to stabilize once your nemesis sees your gun and bugs out.

 

[LP1]

On one hand, I agree with my range's "no drawing from concealment" rule for the numerous safety reasons that have been expressed. However, if we don't trust our fellow shooters to handle guns safely, it seems to reinforce and validate the opinion of those who feel that guns shouldn't be carried in public. If we don't trust our own, how can we expect others to trust us?

 

[target64]

On one hand, I agree with my range's "no drawing from concealment" rule for the numerous safety reasons that have been expressed. However, if we don't trust our fellow shooters to handle guns safely, it seems to reinforce and validate the opinion of those who feel that guns shouldn't be carried in public. If we don't trust our own, how can we expect others to trust us?

You make a very valid point, definately a "catch 22"

 

[jetmechG550]

On one hand, I agree with my range's "no drawing from concealment" rule for the numerous safety reasons that have been expressed. However, if we don't trust our fellow shooters to handle guns safely, it seems to reinforce and validate the opinion of those who feel that guns shouldn't be carried in public. If we don't trust our own, how can we expect others to trust us?

I've been to the range and left because of shooters next to me and their lackadaisical approach to safety and they weren't drawing. Sorry but some people have little to no training or thought to anyone else around them.

 

[singlesix]

On one hand, I agree with my range's "no drawing from concealment" rule for the numerous safety reasons that have been expressed. However, if we don't trust our fellow shooters to handle guns safely, it seems to reinforce and validate the opinion of those who feel that guns shouldn't be carried in public. If we don't trust our own, how can we expect others to trust us?

So you would have no problem with your fellow shooter pointing a gun at you, right? After all his a safe shooter and we have to trust our fellow shooters.

 

[Hop]

I've shot that range a lot and never saw that sign. I usually keep a sidearm at these public ranges. You never know who is going to show up. But how can they say we can't carry concealed? Aren't they bound by IC 35-47-11.1-2? Am I missing something?

 

[actaeon277]

I've shot that range a lot and never saw that sign. I usually keep a sidearm at these public ranges. You never know who is going to show up. But how can they say we can't carry concealed? Aren't they bound by IC 35-47-11.1-2? Am I missing something?

I don't know about public ranges. But it doesn't apply to private ranges.

 

[Coach]

Some observations:
Drawing from a holster should be a consideration for joining a range. If you want to do it find a range that allows it and join. You may have to drive and you may have to agree to do some work around the range. No such thing as a free lunch.

Safety is not enhanced by prohibiting drawing by rule. Unsafe gun-handlers will still be unsafe. Ranges that prohibit drawing are trying to be safe at least give them credit for that.

I have been amazed at the outright fear and lack of ability to draw and re-holster that exists in the gun community. Too many folks own guns and not the skills to use them. We all need to work at fixing this situation. If you own a gun learn how to use it and to do so safely.

 

[rstocum]

I have seen a fair bit of unsafe gun handling at public ranges too. IDNR has range officers at every public range now. I am sure that range safety is much better as a result. I have seen the officer(s) at Wilbur Wright speak to people about what they are doing wrong. I have little doubt they could evaluate whether someone drawing to shoot is doing it safely or not.

I am going there this weekend. If the signs are still there I will take pictures.

I had thought of the advice that youngda9 gave earlier in this thread, and I think that might be a good alternative. Starting from low ready leaves out only the actual draw and placement of the non-shooting hand. However, for me nothing can replace the value of going through the drills from beginning to end.

The saying is that you fight the way you train, and if you don't train the entire sequence, including hitting the bang switch, you are not preparing yourself as best you can.

I agree with coach about the fear that even gun folks seem to have about shooting for real world self defense. Are there really so many of us who only go to the range to pull our guns out of a bag and practice accuracy? I also agree that driving further and volunteering to keep the range in repair is worth being a member at a range where I can properly practice. The conservation clubs requirements are still too much for me. Anyone able to recommend a range that fits the bill?

 

[cedartop]

I WOULD NOT be a member or even use a range that did not allow drawing from the holster. Frankly, I am very surprised that so many here seem accepting of that policy. Yes dry fire and practice are very important and much can be learned from them. I dry practice daily, but it is not the whole puzzle. As someone else here said, if you are just a target shooter, I guess it is just fine. If however, you fancy yourself a self defense shooter and carry a loaded weapon, you have to do some draw and live fire.

As a side note, forget that low ready cr@p.

 

[Hop]

I don't know about public ranges. But it doesn't apply to private ranges.

Everything I can find leads me to believe the gun range is under .gov control though. That would mean they can't say how a gun is carried while on the range.

 

[Landon]

I WOULD NOT be a member or even use a range that did not allow drawing from the holster. Frankly, I am very surprised that so many here seem accepting of that policy. Yes dry fire and practice are very important and much can be learned from them. I dry practice daily, but it is not the whole puzzle. As someone else here said, if you are just a target shooter, I guess it is just fine. If however, you fancy yourself a self defense shooter and carry a loaded weapon, you have to do some draw and live fire.

As a side note, forget that low ready cr@p.

I suppose to make it really live you need to find someone to shoot at also

 

[Llamaguy]

I think it's important to consider shoulder holsters for his discussion and not just hip. When you pull from a shoulder holster you will be pointing a live round at the guy next to you with the intent of firing(down range) and people will be going for the trigger. Unless you're an actual pro, it's going to be to easy to accidentally pull the trigger and when live rounds and people are concerned, the risk is just too high.

 

[IndyGunner]

One of the ranges here prohibits it because its federal/engineer land. They dont allow carry of any kind due to said federal law.

I see nothing wrong with practicing drawing though (if you are at a range that allows it). Dont buy into the video of the guy that shot himself. I dont think guns are evil because one guy shoots someone, and I dont think they are going to go off drawing and shooting because some moron shot himself. (hip holsters anyway)

$0.02

 

[eldirector]

It appears that many (most/all) ranges have a HUGE opportunity to expand their offerings.

For instance, the few pistol bays at MCF&G would seem to be GREAT locations to practice draws. Each bay has its own berm on 3 sides. Mitigates the risk to adjacent shooters. Current policy forbids it, though.

I would absolutely join a range (in central Indiana) that provided draw and shoot pistol bays. I have NOT joined a new range, simply because I haven't seen all the services I want. I can slow-fire at paper targets set up at 20 yards anywhere. That's nothing special.

 

[LP1]

So you would have no problem with your fellow shooter pointing a gun at you, right? After all his a safe shooter and we have to trust our fellow shooters.

No, I didn't say that. I said that I support the "no draw from concealment" rule at my range for the various reasons that were mentioned. Please read all the words before criticizing.

We resent it when anti-carry folks think that we are a bunch of careless cowboys, but apparently that is what many of us think about each other.

 

[Sticky]

So we are competent to draw and fire at IDPA competitions; but not at any other time?

 

[Bushido Devil Dog]

I don't see why ranges can't/don't just have a testing/certification system in place to permit those that have demonstrated to an RSO that they can draw from the holster and fire safely the opportunity to do so, perhaps on a few designated lanes or a separate firing line (facilities permitting).