Rob Pincus - Appropriate Open Carry

[esrice]

While I realize that proponents on each side of the OC/CC debate are unlikely to change their views, I wanted to present one trainer's take on the issue.

While I don't personally think it should be illegal to OC, and that it should ultimately be up to the individual to decide how they carry, I do agree with Mr. Pincus that defensive tools should not be discovered before a fight. I think concealed carry is more advantageous to the carrier in a defensive role.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wp9QKpNHtgQ

 

[PaulF]

This could be epic.

I liked the video. Rob Pincus is good people in my book.

-Paul

 

[lovemachine]

Great video. I'm a big fan of Rob Pincus.

 

[XMil]

In before somebody gets shot by a 4 year old girl!

 

[cp009]

 

[femurphy77]

In before somebody gets shot by a 4 year old girl!

Shows how much you know. . . . . . . . .it's the 5 year olds we have to worry about!!!

 

[cedartop]

Ayoob makes very much the same arguments in a recent magazine article. It was pretty good but I couldn't find it online to link it.

Found it. Plenty of examples to back his claims. http://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2013/04/street-smart-carrying/

 

[PX4me]

I like his point about the guys videotaping an OC encounter with police. That apparently worked out well for them in Ca.

"Carry concealed, carry responsibly."

Uh-oh.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

:55--one very clear example in Florida, that is easily available on the Internet.

Ummm, yeah:

1. Why not name the case?

2. Florida requires concealed carry (unless fishing).

2:02--should not carry as a political statement.

1. Should I not write letters to the editor because I can?
2. Should I not go to church because I can?
3. Should I not vote because I can?

3:25--should not challenge the government?

I can think of no better reason than to challenge the government. This is exactly why we have the Second Amendment.

4:10--a horse?

Good grief, now people on our side are making horse opera references?

BTW, concealed carry was considered dishonest and cowardly, that is why Indiana's first gun law was to ban concealed carry.

 

[GIJEW]

The tactical arguments for concealed carry--including not inviting a confrontation, even a verbal one--are beyond argument IMO.
I don't think open carry at a pro-gun rally is inappropriate through. Making a statement IS the point. You don't HAVE to OC but it's not out of place in that context. And what about having a "right taken away"? I hope RP means that CA violated people's rights (more than they already had that is)

Anyway, the video is food for thought and worth watching

 

[ATM]

In this video, Pincus comes across as slightly less the ass clown than he and Yeager did a year ago with their combined anti-OC opinion video, but the fact of his world remains the same: if you don't do it his preferred way (or at least according to his narrowly constructed exceptions), you're doing it wrong.

His opening was much better this time: "I am unaware..."

Nicely put, Rob, but perhaps you should have researched the debate during the last year so you'd have something fresh or compelling in this new video.

No, you regurgitated most of the same old crap again. That's OK, it just makes it easier to ignore you on this point, but I doubt that's your purpose in making yet another video on the subject.

I do appreciate your opinions on other things, it's not as if you are completely devoid of reason or overly emotional in some other areas, but I have to wonder why exactly you keep coming back to stress this anti-OC opinion of yours.

What on earth are you trying to accomplish with this?

 

[92ThoStro]

Not a fan of YouTube personalities anyway, so wasn't heartbroken. No statistics to back it up, so it's just another opinion.

 

[ATM]

The tactical arguments for concealed carry--including not inviting a confrontation, even a verbal one--are beyond argument IMO...

Nothing is beyond argument... https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...lf_defense/71996-the_open_carry_argument.html

 

[Kirk Freeman]

What on earth are you trying to accomplish with this?

Marketing, dude, what other purpose would there be?

Create a fuss and get attention.

 

[45calibre]

i agree that it is foolish to OC with a IWB holster that has no retention. who the hell OCs like that?

 

[92ThoStro]

:55--one very clear example in Florida, that is easily available on the Internet.

Ummm, yeah:

1. Why not name the case?

2. Florida requires concealed carry (unless fishing).

2:02--should not carry as a political statement.

1. Should I not write letters to the editor because I can?
2. Should I not go to church because I can?
3. Should I not vote because I can?

3:25--should not challenge the government?

I can think of no better reason than to challenge the government. This is exactly why we have the Second Amendment.

4:10--a horse?

Good grief, now people on our side are making horse opera references?

BTW, concealed carry was considered dishonest and cowardly, that is why Indiana's first gun law was to ban concealed carry.

The 2nd Amendment is so that we can retain the right to hunt
You can't challenge the government

 

[lovemachine]

i agree that it is foolish to OC with a IWB holster that has no retention. who the hell OCs like that?

Sad to say, the majority of OCers I have seen have used IWB holsters, and crappy improper holsters.

If you're going to OC, spend a little money on a proper OWB holster.

 

[drillsgt]

Sad to say, the majority of OCers I have seen have used IWB holsters, and crappy improper holsters.

If you're going to OC, spend a little money on a proper OWB holster.

I see it a lot too but I also see a lot of plainclothes types walking around with non-retention fobus holsters as well, and they should know better.

 

[the1kidd03]

I see it a lot too but I also see a lot of plainclothes types walking around with non-retention fobus holsters as well, and they should know better.

I've never understood all the distaste for Fobus. I've never had a drawing problem from mine (whether live or training).


Regardless, I understand some of the reasons of the "anti OC" crowd. The one thing their point of view continuously hinges on is the idea that they are not the immediate target of a threat, but rather the bystander where they talk about "the element of surprise" and such.

Having been the immediate target, I've learned why I prefer OC on several instances throughout my life. Including a few where the potential threat was diverted because of my OC. This of course can't be proven because what can you do? Walk up to the "thug" and say, "Excuse me but, what were you planning to do before the gun on my hip was obvious to you and you changed directions?"

Even outside of any real threats, 99% of the time OC has proven for both my wife and myself to be a conversation starter with citizens. From those conversations we've converted anti-gunners, gotten people into training classes, taken people to their first range trips, etc., etc. All positive measures to improve gun rights by making more allies which wouldn't have been possible through CC.

While I typically enjoy what Mr. Pincus puts out, this is one area I believe he needs to experience for himself outside of youtube videos posted by antagonistic OCers in anti-gun areas. The large majority of OCers do not fit into that stereotype but someone new to the gun world or trying to form their own opinion on gun owners wouldn't believe that to be the case when they see videos like this put out by professionals. He's an excellent voice for the gun community and since he chooses to put himself in the spotlight as such, we need gun advocating professionals who are NOT drawing more division lines within the gun owner ranks for gun grabbers to exploit.

As far as I'm concerned, you're either pro-gun/liberty or you're not. If you are, then stop drawing such division lines and let people enjoy their liberty and choose for themselves.


Carry on with the OC/CC conversation

 

[drillsgt]

I've never understood all the distaste for Fobus. I've never had a drawing problem from mine (whether live or training).

Not distaste per se I was just commenting on seeing a lot of fobus' with no retention for OC'ing. I have seen them break during training though but this was years ago perhaps they're better now.