Yard Sale Shotgun - What have I got here?

[DoggyDaddy]

Just picked this up at a yard sale. It's a Moore & Sons side lock 12 gauge (not a muzzle loader). It's in very good shape. I haven't started researching it yet, so I thought I would start here on INGO to see if anyone knows anything about these guns. It has some interesting proof marks. Bore is in great shape, and there is only some very minor pitting on the receiver. No surface rust whatsoever.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

I know for certain it's made in Liege, Belguim by some of the proof marks. . My old shotgun has some of the same ones.

Firearms History, Technology & Development: Testing Firearms: Proof Test

Going by the marks in totality, it's possible to nail down an age range for your shotgun - as certain employees had individual / unique stamps. Those are a known quantity and can be used to narrow down a time span when that individual was doing that certain job.

-J-

 

[sempreobie]

Here is another source for antique firearm inquiries that might be helpful.
GabelGuns.com Specializing in pre-1898 Antique Firearms

 

[Buck67]

Until you can find out if it was proofed with modern smokeless powder, don't shoot anything but blackpowder loads in it. It looks like a shooter.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I know for certain it's made in Liege, Belguim by some of the proof marks. . My old shotgun has some of the same ones.

Firearms History, Technology & Development: Testing Firearms: Proof Test

Going by the marks in totality, it's possible to nail down an age range for your shotgun - as certain employees had individual / unique stamps. Those are a known quantity and can be used to narrow down a time span when that individual was doing that certain job.

-J-

Wow, interesting! Maybe I've found a diamond in the rough... or not... Doesn't matter I guess, but it would be a bonus if it were valuable!

 

[DoggyDaddy]

sempriobie, thanks! I bookmarked that site too...

Buck, presumably one of those proof marks will tell me that? Thanks for that info too... I'll definitely find out if it is safe for modern ammo. If not, it'll be a safe queen/ wall hanger.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I don't see the PV mark (one of the Belgium markings for smokeless powder (Nitro Proof), but there is "NS" in a couple of places... Nitro/Smokeless maybe?

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Found out more here... Belgium

This mark:

Indicates a blackpowder proof mark.

There is also an E with a star above it. According to the site that indicates that the gun was inspected by Jamarte Auguste sometime between 1924 and 1959. If I'm interpreting what I think is a lower case "g", that would be a Belgian date mark, indicating it was made in 1928. I still don't know what the NS signifies.

 

[Gdpudge]

It sure is neat. Nice find

 

[Imeagher]

Good looking gun.

 

[traderdan]

Black Powder.

Hey my friend..That is a beautiful old piece, do not get in a hurry to move it down the road. IMO the sidelocks are much more desirable than a common boxlock,and if it is a fluid steel barrel,not pitted too bad inside,I would not be afraid to shoot low brass..I know a couple of guys that are knowledgeable in this field if you want to PM me. With the rise in popularity of "Cowboy" type events,black powder shells are not too hard to find. A little expensive..

 

[DoggyDaddy]

After more research and some info from some guys on another forum, I have found that it's older than 1928... quite a bit older. Here's one bit of info I got from the other forum:

"Moore and Sons was a trade name used by Henri Pieper of Liege Belgium in the period 1880-1898 and most likely imported into the US by H. and D. Folsom Arms Company. Your specimen will be equipped with Damascus, Twist or Laminated Steel barrels and is not safe to use with modern ammunition. Your gun lacks the specific proof marks: no nitro proof (1891-present), no barrel weight (nitro proofed guns 1892-present), no choke designation (1924-present), no gauge and chamber length designation (1924-present). Your gun was made before 1891 based on the lack of proof marks plus the side lever design that was obsolete by the 1890's."

 

[87iroc]

Wow. I need to find me some better yard sales

 

[KellyinAvon]

Score!! Why can't I find cool old shotguns at yard sales??

 

[saleen4971]

^ seriously.

that thing is gorgeous, no matter what it is!

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Thanks guys! I gotta say it was one of my better yard sale finds. Seems like mostly I come across baby clothes, toys, rusty tools and old clothes... DoggyMama is a yard sale queen, and she has found some bargains, but like I've told her, I go for quality not quantity!

 

[Trigger Time]

It's a wall hanger. I wouldn't shoot anything through it unless you have a good gunsmith look it over and still I personaly wouldn't fire it (I have a couple similar in age and design). I don't see it being valuable but if you spent around $50 on it you probably did good if you like guns you can't shoot. Its purdy.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

It's a wall hanger. I wouldn't shoot anything through it unless you have a good gunsmith look it over and still I personaly wouldn't fire it (I have a couple similar in age and design). I don't see it being valuable but if you spent around $50 on it you probably did good if you like guns you can't shoot. Its purdy.

Well, I paid considerably more than that. Probably more than I should have, but I was able to speak with the former owner (he wasn't at the sale when I bought it), and he said that he bought it at an auction 7 or 8 years ago. He said that the auction was split into two groups - one group of non-working "parts guns" and one group that were supposedly certified to be in working order. This one was in the latter group. (Take that for what it's worth. ) I really don't see any reason why it wouldn't be safe to fire with black powder loads. It locks up tight, and there is no pitting of the barrels, inside or out. Even if it's a wall hanger and I paid too much, it wouldn't be the first time I've paid too much for something I really liked and wanted. Probably won't be the last!

 

[Trigger Time]

It could even even be a vet bring back from WWII. Never know without the papers. But still neat to think about. I'm a sucker for all guns wall hangers or not. Those Barrels can be real weak because over time the way those are made you have rust and other issues that can further weaken them and make them not safe to fire. That's why I said I'd have a person in the know give the thumbs up before firing anything other than a primer through it. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Slawburger]

Great looking old shotgun. Have it checked out if you want to run some blackpowder through it. Congrats on the find.