National Archives was the source.
You don't know the reasons Bin Laden gave for 911?
[video=youtube;TA3Dn1ZqvGg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TA3Dn1ZqvGg[/video]
The thing is there are ways of knowing, there's a slew of documents and quotes out there saying the Japanese were defeated and looking for conditional surrender. Are you saying that they weren't looking for conditional surrender or that we shouldn't have accepted anything less than unconditional surrender?
The bombs seemed to be the alternative to the invasion, meaning that if the two bombs did not bring out a surrender, then the only other alternative was the loss of millions of lives. And one should not forget the plan of devastating multiple cities with mustard gas, a plan that was favored quite heavily in some circles. That would have been a hundred times worse than the bombs. Apparently we have a different interpretation of historical events.
For the invasion plan sure, not for anything else. No one is contesting what an invasion would have entailed or that there was an invasion plan. The issue is with the idea that an invasion was going to be the necessary alternative to the bombs.
An unsourced article that plays out a hypothetical invasion? The argument being made is that an invasion wasn't necessary either, not that it wouldn't have been costly.
the idea has taken root that foreign/enemy ... lives should not be taken in the event that Americans can die instead.
Well, sure. Americans are always the bad guys. Didn't you get the memo from Bam-Bam?
If my Dad were alive today he would certainly love to chime in on this and give his point of view, because he had strong opinions on this subject. He enlisted in the Navy at 17 1/2 and fought in the Pacific until the end of the war. He had no love for the Japanese, and he and my Mom had no qualms about the dropping of the bombs regardless of the killing of civilians. To them it was needed to end the war and save countless American Lives. The Japanese had plenty of warning and time to surrender and they did not.
My Parents had a number of friends, who were killed in both Europe and the Pacific, as well as Pearl Harbor. Thankfully, no family members that I ever heard of. My Dad also knew many men who were KIA, and knew of men who were in the Bataan death march. My Mom spoke of a couple men she knew, who after the war who were so distraught they committed suicide in the neighborhood because of what they'd gone through, and that impacted her.
Why dont we ask the men and women who lost their lives at Pearl what they think, or their Moms/Dads/Family/Friends, their thoughts on the dropping of the bombs.
Lets not forget the genocide atrocities the Japanese committed against the Chinese civilians killing an estimated 10 million+, so to compare the approx 240,000 innocent Japanese killed by the bombs is appalling. Lets not forget the war-crimes committed by the Japanese either, or the fact that the Japanese try to hide their past and paint themselves as victims of WWII. What Japanese history lessons leave out. I'm not shedding any tears for those who were killed by the bombs the Japanese made their bed.
Also, if anyone thinks the US should apologize for the dropping of the bombs, that is equally disgusting in my eyes. We owe no one an apology for anything that happened during WWII. "Walter Kozak from WSJ vehemently disagrees with the idea of an apology as well, saying it inverts the stark but critical historical reality: "Focusing on the atomic bombs paints the Japanese as victims, like other participants in World War II. They were not. The Japanese, like their German allies, were bent on global conquest and the destruction of other people who did not fit their bizarre racial theories." Global conquest....should be left to board games.
Wars have been fought through out history, probably as long as there have been humans, with countless lives lost. No person on earth and no country is perfect. Have we made mistakes, yes, are we perfect nope, but I would not live anywhere else, and I'll make no apologies. What happened happened, accept it. It is history and it cant be changed. The people at that time did what they did to preserve the sanctity of freedom, and I could not be any more proud than to say I'm an American.
This might just say it all. How the Atomic Bomb Saved 4,000,000 Lives
You're still not getting that this is NOT a matter of FACT, but of ANALYSIS based on what people knew or thought they knew.
The FACT that Japan did not surrender before the A-bombing remains a FACT. Your statement that they WOULD have surrendered anyway is not borne out by any FACTS, but rather a series of ASSERTIONS you have made here. The number of times you repeat your argument does not make it a convincing argument.
You haven't given any sources yet, other than to say there is a "slew" of documents and sources.
Give us your best two or three primary sources, and your best secondary source so we can weigh your argument.
Remember, you're the one advancing a position, so it's your burden of proof and production.
Don't hold your breath waiting for clear and specific identification of sources. More than 60 years later blathering that Japan was on the verge of surrender is utter foolishness. Regardless of how many "high ranking" military officials did not want to use the A-Bomb, the decision was made to use it to end the War. Just achieving the rank of General or Admiral did not mean you were the smartest or always correct. My Dad could tell you about a couple Captains that did not know the Bow of a Destroyer from the Stern. One thought it correct to steam parallel to the winds and waves of a Typhoon.
I'm digging back a week to pull this quote up.
While I glazed over the article, I think the above is really a understatement because of a ripple effect.
How many lives of today's population in America would not exist if we was forced to land
an invasion force on Japan's soil?
Would anyone in this thread complaining about the dropping of the bombs be around today?
4 Million lives lost over a two or four year time frame is a small number when magnified over 68 years.
How many offspring would not have been born over the three generations in that time frame?
Steveh_131, HoughMade, Jludo and mrjarrell, would you be alive today?
Would your significant other be alive, the next time you are @ work or in a crowd, look to the left and
right and ask yourself would they be alive?
Both of my grandfathers served, my mothers dad was in the Pacific theater for the Navy, my fathers dad
served in Europe and was in route to the Pacific when it ended.
My two grandfathers who could have died in an ensuing invasion would have resulted in over a hundred
lives not being born, including myself, leaving nothing but gravestones that could have read....
Died 1946
You're saying that Truman knew best and unilaterally made the correct decision? These were the top Generals and Admirals at the time but the president of only a few months knew better than them what was the militarily correct course of action?
Here are some well sources articles on the subject, if anyone has qualms about a single specific claim I've made, by all means let me know what you think I'm fabricating here.
MILITARY VIEWS About Dropping the Atomic Bomb
William Paterson University - The Obliteration of Hiroshima
Hiroshima: Was It Absolutely Necessary?
Why won't anyone address my point that the Japanese were prepared to surrender given they were allowed to keep their emperor, a condition later met by the allies.