Woman dies after failing to learn how to fight with a handgun.

[cedartop]

Tasteless way to word the article. The woman died because of some worthless pos. There's no way the article, written the day after, has a clue of what unfolded. Hell, from a linked story, it indicated that she did indeed take a class.


Police chief: 'She was able to get one shot off, and the gun jammed' :: WRAL.com

This woman was presented with a potential threat, and took the right steps in learning to defend herself. What a piece of written drivel. Are we to expect that everyone carrying is tactically sound, or even has the ability to be such?

I agree with your opinion of the way the article was written. It was still an interesting case study anyway and one that if we care to we can learn from. More details would be helpful, like what kind of gun was it and had it been fired much previously.

 

[OWGEM]

Exactly. If you want required training then let's just make gun safety and marksmanship part of the school curriculum. Problem solved.

I'm all for that! But wait, requiring that would be against everyone's rights. Right?

 

[kawtech87]

REALLY? I cannot fathom anyone carrying a gun that they have NEVER fired. Is that an actual thing? Do you guys know people that have done/do that?

Yes unfortunately. I do know a guy who, on more than one occasion, has bought a gun, holster and a box of ammo went home loaded it up and strapped it on all that same day. And as far as I know right now he is carrying a gun he has not fired or cleaned once. Despite my urging him not to do this.

 

[nakinate]

I'm all for that! But wait, requiring that would be against everyone's rights. Right?

No, you wouldn't make training a requirement to carry, just to graduate high school. If someone is a drop out they don't forfeit their right to bear arms. It would be a compromise gun owners could get behind but the antigun people would throw a fit.

 

[OWGEM]

No, you wouldn't make training a requirement to carry, just to graduate high school. If someone is a drop out they don't forfeit their right to bear arms. It would be a compromise gun owners could get behind but the antigun people would throw a fit.

So if a person refuses to take the required firearm training, for whatever reason, they are refused a high school graduation? Not sure I could back that.


I'm all for firearms training in high school, not a requirement to graduate.


Now if someone wants to carry a firearm I am for required training. And I mean proper training, not hit the paper 20 out of 30 times and your good. For their safety and mine. In my mind it is a safety issue, not a constitutional issue.


I know I will catch flack for saying that, I have my flame suit on.

 

[nakinate]

Agree to disagree

 

[eldirector]

As long as *I* am the one to define the training regimen, I suppose i could get behind the idea.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Tasteless way to word the article. The woman died because of some worthless pos. There's no way the article, written the day after, has a clue of what unfolded. Hell, from a linked story, it indicated that she did indeed take a class.


Police chief: 'She was able to get one shot off, and the gun jammed' :: WRAL.com

This woman was presented with a potential threat, and took the right steps in learning to defend herself. What a piece of written drivel. Are we to expect that everyone carrying is tactically sound, or even has the ability to be such?

Well, let's take a look at what NC's "concealed carry class" covers:

This is the class required by North Carolina to obtain the Concealed Carry Handgun Permit. This class is comprised of eight hours of mandatory classroom training with additional time on the range.
Classroom time involves two hours of discussion on the legal aspects of using deadly force in self-defense and the laws concerning where a concealed handgun may not be carried. The remainder of the the classroom time covers firearms safety and nomenclature as well as marksmanship fundamentals.
Before completing this class the participant shall pass a twenty question test about the legalities of carrying a concealed handgun and the use of deadly force. In addition, the student must demonstrate how to safely load, unload and handle a handgun as well as shoot a handgun at a target. Handling procedures are graded by the instructor during practical application, and shooting proficiency is determined by the score the student receives after shooting forty rounds at a life-sized silhouette. Students are required to shoot from distances of 1, 3, 5 & 7 yards.

North Carolina Concealed Carry Handgun Permit Training - Point Blank Range

This is the problem with state mandated training. It's a check box. 8 hours, the majority of which are lectures, does not a gunfighter make.

Yes, we are to expect everyone who takes it upon themselves to carry a deadly weapon to be "tactically sound" or at least have some basic proficiency. It's not a toy. This seems to repeatedly get lost. Not a talisman, not a teddy bear, not a toy. When you decide to carry a gun, you have decided to carry a deadly weapon and your decisions and abilities can affect not only you but the people around you. This is a huge responsibility. Treat it as such, and expect others to as well.

 

[AndersonIN]

But not firing happens even after training. Very interesting article Men Against Fire: How Many Soldiers Actually Fired Their Weapons at the Enemy During the Vietnam War

 

[SSGSAD]

But not firing happens even after training. Very interesting article Men Against Fire: How Many Soldiers Actually Fired Their Weapons at the Enemy During the Vietnam War

I read something about the Civil War, and after the battle, weapons were found to be loaded 2 and 3 times, but NEVER fired .....

 

[BehindBlueI's]

But not firing happens even after training. Very interesting article Men Against Fire: How Many Soldiers Actually Fired Their Weapons at the Enemy During the Vietnam War

.mil doesn't always translate. Not all of those folks were volunteering to carry a gun. If you carry stateside, you volunteered to become armed with a deadly weapon and shouldn't be a conscientious objector I'm not sure we have to worry about forward observers and platoon leaders not firing because they had other tasks.

Realistic training lessens the natural hesitation of firing. Simunitions, human shaped targets, etc. You can always find a "but..." as nothing is 100%. That's often just an excuse for inaction.

 

[ghuns]

Don't give me that BS...

I believe in training. And I support required training for someone to receive their LTCH. For my safety and theirs.

More BS. See post #53

Thank you for your service. And I am sure you don't hate the Constitution.

But the lack of a training requirement for voting rights has done us all far more harm than the lack of training requirements for our 2nd Amendment right ever will.

 

[OWGEM]

Thank you for your service. And I am sure you don't hate the Constitution.

Thank you.

But the lack of a training requirement for voting rights has done us all far more harm than the lack of training requirements for our 2nd Amendment right ever will.

And that is a whole different topic I would rather not be involved in, thanks.

 

[ghuns]

And that is a whole different topic I would rather not be involved in, thanks.

Why would you support a training requirement for one specific constitutional right but not others like voting?

Someone exercising their 2A rights all willy-nilly, is only a threat to the liberty and safety of those in their immediate vicinity.

Uneducated, uninformed voters are a danger to all of us.

 

[oldpink]

Thank you.



And that is a whole different topic I would rather not be involved in, thanks.

Jumping back to your earlier comment (sorry, don't want to quote your long post that contained it), filled with your personal examples of unsafe gun use that you had personally experienced, I would have to ask exactly what kind of company do you keep that people do that?
If I ever had someone do any of those things even once, I'd wrap his barrel around his neck, yet you seem to see people all over the world who can't seem to get it right, therefore the rest of the world must play a game of "Mother, May I?" with his clearly defined right?

 

[OWGEM]

Jumping back to your earlier comment (sorry, don't want to quote your long post that contained it), filled with your personal examples of unsafe gun use that you had personally experienced, I would have to ask exactly what kind of company do you keep that people do that?
If I ever had someone do any of those things even once, I'd wrap his barrel around his neck, yet you seem to see people all over the world who can't seem to get it right, therefore the rest of the world must play a game of "Mother, May I?" with his clearly defined right?

It is not the company I keep. It is people I have come across in my 67 years on this earth. The company I keep play it safe, and if not I say so. And I would hope they would return the favor should I do something unsafe.

 

[indiucky]

Software is to hardware as three is to one.

(Yes, I ripped that off from Napoleon, happy now?)

"Good writers write...Great writers steal."

Ernest Hemingway

 

[oldpink]

It is not the company I keep. It is people I have come across in my 67 years on this earth. The company I keep play it safe, and if not I say so. And I would hope they would return the favor should I do something unsafe.

Yet, you have no problem extrapolating your personal bad experiences onto the rest of the population as a whole.
Don't worry...I don't expect you to get why there would be others out there who take umbrage at your statist position.

 

[Nam1911]

REALLY? I cannot fathom anyone carrying a gun that they have NEVER fired. Is that an actual thing? Do you guys know people that have done/do that?

Sad truth is I do know some people like this. They go out buy a gun and ammo and think they are prepared. I tell them they need training but sadly they own their own fate and brush my suggestions to the side. Along with some that never clean their gun and carry a filthy glock. But it will NEVER malfunction. It's a glock.

 

[edporch]

And yet there are some here on INGO who fight against the idea of required training. Hum.

I strongly recommend training, but as soon as it becomes mandatory it will be used as a way to restrict people carrying.

"Sorry, the classes are all full, try back in 6 months"