Winning the Libertarian vote

[Blackhawk2001]

The bolded section seems to me to be the central issue. If it is not alive, it cannot be "murdered". We cannot define a single, objective point at which the fetus is or is not alive. Some believe at conception; for that matter, some seem to believe that even interfering with that conception is the equivalent of murder. Others say that birth is the defining point, but honestly, what is the difference between a fetus at 9:59 AM and a baby at 10:00 AM? Can we, with any level of integrity, say that that one minute makes such a objective difference? If we can, at what point during gestation is the right "one minute"? Can we truly say that the point life begins is the moment before he (the prospective father) puts on a condom?

It all comes down to belief. I don't want laws that conform to nor restrict my life based on the beliefs of any one person or group of people. I want laws that exist to be based in objective fact, not subjective opinion.



Blessings,
Bill

I can't get over the feeling that a society which willingly allows its children to be killed for the convenience of the mother will be beset by other systemic ills that will lead to its destruction or dissolution. I wonder if the current indifference to human suffering evident in the spate of murder/suicides we're experiencing has its roots in this societal indifference to the fate of the unborn.

 

[88GT]

Murders happen every day, rapes happen every day, pillaging happens every day (in some part of the world or another) and I can tell you there is not a single place on the planet that all the above are not outlawed, yet they still happen. So just how the hell have any of those wonderful laws helped? Like I've said millions of times, we can't even get the 6 commandments that deal with relations with our neighbors right, so just how will adding lots more help?

The Romans and Greeks were arguing these same points thousands of years ago, and we still haven't learned this one simple fact; MORE LAWS=LESS JUSTICE!!!!!!!

Never made the argument they did. But unlike you, I didn't reach for the ridiculous and say that they also increased crime either.

 

[hornadylnl]

I can't get over the feeling that a society which willingly allows its children to be killed for the convenience of the mother will be beset by other systemic ills that will lead to its destruction or dissolution. I wonder if the current indifference to human suffering evident in the spate of murder/suicides we're experiencing has its roots in this societal indifference to the fate of the unborn.

Coming from the guy that just recently advocated genocide.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

It all comes down to belief. I don't want laws that conform to nor restrict my life based on the beliefs of any one person or group of people. I want laws that exist to be based in objective fact, not subjective opinion.



Blessings,
Bill

It seems to me all laws are based on the aggregate opinion(s) of the governed. Additionally, even laws that are based on "objective facts" are weighed and the degree to which they are governed are based on the governed's opinion of their importance. The beauty of this country's constitution is that it allowed for the people of the states to debate issues, not already prescribed/directed by the constitution, and decide how they wished to govern them selves. Presumably, the people in one state would follow their beliefs, their conscience based on their world views, etc. in enacting laws that prescribed the society in which they wished to live.

Not many people, I'd wager, want "somebody else" to tell them what to do. But for a group of people to live together, with all of their various self interests, they must agree to a set of rules, by which they'll agree to live among each other.

 

[foszoe]

Libertarian vote isn't worth pursuing

Their own charts suggest that, if forced to choose one of the two parties, their vote would be equally split. Members of the LP speak in sound bites and refuse to take a principled stand when one is required nor define exactly what they are saying. If all sounds good for 5 minutes then the luster fades. If one has to be in a political party they give a home to some. I'd rather just call myself an independent.

 

[Expat]

In any biological sense, life begins at conception. Are we talking when it could survive on its own? If we use that standard then at what point on the other end (people on life support of some sort) should we use some means of termination. I assume we will want to use the same standard.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

In any biological sense, life begins at conception. Are we talking when it could survive on its own? If we use that standard then at what point on the other end (people on life support of some sort) should we use some means of termination. I assume we will want to use the same standard.

If that were indeed the standard, the window for many would be miniscule.

 

[hornadylnl]

Libertarian vote isn't worth pursuing

Their own charts suggest that, if forced to choose one of the two parties, their vote would be equally split. Members of the LP speak in sound bites and refuse to take a principled stand when one is required nor define exactly what they are saying. If all sounds good for 5 minutes then the luster fades. If one has to be in a political party they give a home to some. I'd rather just call myself an independent.

If Anybody But Obama isn't a principled stand, I don't know what is.

 

[mrjarrell]

Yeah, ignore the libertarian vote in a close race. That makes a lot of sense from a tactical perspective.

Obama Leads Romney 52-45 In New Reason-Rupe Poll; In Three-Way Race Obama Leads Romney 49-42, Johnson Gets 6 Percent - Hit & Run : Reason.com

 

[hornadylnl]

Yeah, ignore the libertarian vote in a close race. That makes a lot of sense from a tactical perspective.

Obama Leads Romney 52-45 In New Reason-Rupe Poll; In Three-Way Race Obama Leads Romney 49-42, Johnson Gets 6 Percent - Hit & Run : Reason.com

Why change strategies now?

 

[mrjarrell]

Why change strategies now?

Hope they're going to find peace when we get 4 more years of Obama.

 

[hornadylnl]

Hope they're going to find peace when we get 4 more years of Obama.

It won't be their fault, it will be ours.

The repub party is like a union that refuses to represent you but still demands you pay dues (vote for them).

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Hope they're going to find peace when we get 4 more years of Obama.

I saw a poll where 55-58% of likely voters would be OK with this.

 

[hornadylnl]

I saw a poll where 55-58% of likely voters would be OK with this.

And just what is the other 42-45% going to do about it?

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

And just what is the other 42-45% going to do about it?

Live with it.

 

[hornadylnl]

Live with it.

Or post here about what a socialist, muslim, American hating,................. Obama is.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Or post here about what a socialist, muslim, American hating,................. Obama is.

You forgot the illegitimate son of Frank Marshall Davis.

 

[hornadylnl]

You forgot the illegitimate son of Frank Marshall Davis.

And when the next republican wins, the parallel universe of web *****ing will be a mirror image.

 

[foszoe]

If Anybody But Obama isn't a principled stand, I don't know what is.

I don't think I ever took that stand, but its certainly not mine. I am a recovering libertarian from the last two elections who realized Ron Paul has it right.

 

[foszoe]

Yeah, ignore the libertarian vote in a close race. That makes a lot of sense from a tactical perspective.

Obama Leads Romney 52-45 In New Reason-Rupe Poll; In Three-Way Race Obama Leads Romney 49-42, Johnson Gets 6 Percent - Hit & Run : Reason.com

Didn't say ignore them. Look at your own charts, you would split 50/50 anyway. You even espouse that here, Obama, Romney they are both the same. It is said all the time. Besides there is nothing I am going to say to change your mind. If I was ignoring them I wouldn't be "talking" to you.