Will Marijuana be legalized under Trump?

[BugI02]

I agree with that. I think states should have the power to decide for themselves. But to do that federal drug laws would would need to change.

That hasn't stopped ten states and counting from legalizing recreational use. Federal is much slower to change, as it should be given LoUC

 

[jamil]

That hasn't stopped ten states and counting from legalizing recreational use. Federal is much slower to change, as it should be given LoUC

If federal law is nullified, let’s go for repealing NFA in Indiana.

 

[BugI02]

You might just be able to get away with that, you know. It depends on how much the state would be willing to overtly legalize certain classes of weapon and its willingness to go to bat for that legal definition

You go first, I'll wait and see how it turns out

 

[femurphy77]

There's been a couple of references to the history of MJ and hemp in this country and the efforts to demonize the weed early in the war on drugs; I picked up a copy of "Reefer Madness and it was freakin' hilarious!! Once you get past the fact that it was government sanctioned I mean.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Trump admin. sued over rules blocking medical marijuana patients from gun ownership

 

[bwframe]

...My guess is because you are being hypocritical and don't want to admit to putting chemicals in your body, while decrying others use...

Yep, your guess...

Sorry you were somehow offended.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

You might just be able to get away with that, you know. It depends on how much the state would be willing to overtly legalize certain classes of weapon and its willingness to go to bat for that legal definition

You go first, I'll wait and see how it turns out

Someone already went first, it didn't work out for them.
https://www.cjonline.com/news/crime...ed-silencers-and-kansas-law-receive-probation

Yep, your guess...

Sorry you were somehow offended.

Not offended, more amused. So how much caffeine do you ingest every day?

 

[BugI02]

Interesting. Do you know if they plan to pursue a higher court ruling or was that first shave close enough? With some gun rights money behind them, it might be interesting but the danger would be a broad ruling on federal gun control rather than a narrow ruling on states rights. Probably not a good idea because of unintended consequences. Maybe after RBG goes to the big sleep and we get a 6-3 split

 

[BugI02]

[snip] So how much caffeine do you ingest every day?

I'll go first beedub

4 to 6 most workdays, sometimes more if we're really tearing into a problem. 2 to 3 on weekend days

But a lot (too many) of those workdays I'm already sitting in the airport at 5am heading to my where my clients want me or up early in some other city 'enjoying' their stupid commuting problems. When I was younger I used to quit all caffeine for six months or so at a time, just to prove I could still do it. I don't think I could do that anymore unless it was some medical requirement, I'm a slave to the bitter alkaloid

 

[bwframe]

...So how much caffeine do you ingest every day?

You are absolutely right, caffeine is totally the same as using pot or alcohol. The same with the chocolate and turkey "buzz" you noted above.

Better abstain before getting a coffee OWI...

 

[PaulF]

You are absolutely right, caffeine is totally the same as using pot or alcohol. The same with the chocolate and turkey "buzz" you noted above.

Better abstain before getting a coffee OWI...

Like it or not, caffeine is a mind-altering drug...and I think that's the point he's trying to force here.

I don't think the government in general, and the federal government in particular, should have any say in what chemicals a person chooses to put in their body. You are clearly comfortable will *some* amount of mind-altering drug use, though it appears your threshold of comfort is relatively low concerning other intoxicants. Others are comfortable with more, ahem...exotic intoxicants.

Cocaine isn't really that scary when used sparingly. The same is true for LSD, MDMA, amphetamines, and the natural psychedelics. The scary part happens when people use too much of these chemicals, or turn to illegitimate means to support their addictions. Cocaine use spikes dramatically on the weekends...addicts fix every day, working people use on the weekends.

It's much more complex than most people want to admit, and for me the simplifier for the equation is liberty. If there is a question of agency, I'll choose my own abilities over those of the government every time.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Interesting. Do you know if they plan to pursue a higher court ruling or was that first shave close enough? With some gun rights money behind them, it might be interesting but the danger would be a broad ruling on federal gun control rather than a narrow ruling on states rights. Probably not a good idea because of unintended consequences. Maybe after RBG goes to the big sleep and we get a 6-3 split

They appealed and the 10th circuit shot it down. No idea if they filed with SCOTUS.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/oct/16/ruling-kansas-gun-law-no-defense-to-federal-firear/

And a link to the ruling. I haven't had a chance to read it yet.
https://www.ca10.uscourts.gov/opinions/17/17-3034.pdf

Like it or not, caffeine is a mind-altering drug...and I think that's the point he's trying to force here.

I don't think the government in general, and the federal government in particular, should have any say in what chemicals a person chooses to put in their body. You are clearly comfortable will *some* amount of mind-altering drug use, though it appears your threshold of comfort is relatively low concerning other intoxicants. Others are comfortable with more, ahem...exotic intoxicants.

Cocaine isn't really that scary when used sparingly. The same is true for LSD, MDMA, amphetamines, and the natural psychedelics. The scary part happens when people use too much of these chemicals, or turn to illegitimate means to support their addictions. Cocaine use spikes dramatically on the weekends...addicts fix every day, working people use on the weekends.

It's much more complex than most people want to admit, and for me the simplifier for the equation is liberty. If there is a question of agency, I'll choose my own abilities over those of the government every time.

Pretty much. And said better than I could.

 

[bwframe]

Like it or not, caffeine is a mind-altering drug...and I think that's the point he's trying to force here.

I don't think the government in general, and the federal government in particular, should have any say in what chemicals a person chooses to put in their body. You are clearly comfortable will *some* amount of mind-altering drug use, though it appears your threshold of comfort is relatively low concerning other intoxicants. Others are comfortable with more, ahem...exotic intoxicants.

Cocaine isn't really that scary when used sparingly. The same is true for LSD, MDMA, amphetamines, and the natural psychedelics. The scary part happens when people use too much of these chemicals, or turn to illegitimate means to support their addictions. Cocaine use spikes dramatically on the weekends...addicts fix every day, working people use on the weekends.

It's much more complex than most people want to admit, and for me the simplifier for the equation is liberty. If there is a question of agency, I'll choose my own abilities over those of the government every time.

The real difficulty is that we as a society condone, if not promote, the use of recreational drugs. Pot, alcohol, whatever, it's a problem to promote altering mental status intentionally.

The rehab industry on top of the legal system on top of emergency services are just some of those that show the insane numbers that this promoted behavior nets.

I'm not in favor of changing any laws. I'd like to see us a society change attitudes about all recreational chemical use. We all grew up waiting for our 21st birthday, so we could drink. We all smoked at a likely younger age, because it was cool.

Let's make it cool to NOT use chemicals to adjust our mental perception?

 

[jamil]

The real difficulty is that we as a society condone, if not promote, the use of recreational drugs. Pot, alcohol, whatever, it's a problem to promote altering mental status intentionally.

The rehab industry on top of the legal system on top of emergency services are just some of those that show the insane numbers that this promoted behavior nets.

I'm not in favor of changing any laws. I'd like to see us a society change attitudes about all recreational chemical use. We all grew up waiting for our 21st birthday, so we could drink. We all smoked at a likely younger age, because it was cool.

Let's make it cool to NOT use chemicals to adjust our mental perception?

Changing attitudes would be the real effective way to change personal behavior, especially in terms of whether people do drugs or not. People want to do drugs, they do drugs. Doesn't matter how illegal it is. All the drug laws do is catch some of them, put them in jail, and teach them how to be far worse criminals.

You're just one of hundreds of millions of individuals in our society. Society doesn't have *a* collective mind that it can decide it doesn't condone, or promote, anything. There are individuals on either side of the debate, and points in between. You just get your tiny little vote in your community, state, nation. That's all most of us get. I'll use mine to advocate getting the government out of people's business. You can use yours to advocate for giving government as much power as you want, I guess.

One thing is sure. The days of the right legislating social conservatism are pretty much over. If you want laws to dictate people's social behavior to be what you want, you'll have to wait until the pendulum swings back. And it may never swing back to where you want it. The people in the catbird's seat care more about getting free **** than legislating drugs or how people get to **** for that matter.

 

[bwframe]

The real difficulty is that we as a society condone, if not promote, the use of recreational drugs. Pot, alcohol, whatever, it's a problem to promote altering mental status intentionally.

The rehab industry on top of the legal system on top of emergency services are just some of those that show the insane numbers that this promoted behavior nets.

I'm not in favor of changing any laws. I'd like to see us a society change attitudes about all recreational chemical use. We all grew up waiting for our 21st birthday, so we could drink. We all smoked at a likely younger age, because it was cool.

Let's make it cool to NOT use chemicals to adjust our mental perception?

Changing attitudes would be the real effective way to change personal behavior, especially in terms of whether people do drugs or not. People want to do drugs, they do drugs. Doesn't matter how illegal it is. All the drug laws do is catch some of them, put them in jail, and teach them how to be far worse criminals.

You're just one of hundreds of millions of individuals in our society. Society doesn't have *a* collective mind that it can decide it doesn't condone, or promote, anything. There are individuals on either side of the debate, and points in between. You just get your tiny little vote in your community, state, nation. That's all most of us get. I'll use mine to advocate getting the government out of people's business. You can use yours to advocate for giving government as much power as you want, I guess.

One thing is sure. The days of the right legislating social conservatism are pretty much over. If you want laws to dictate people's social behavior to be what you want, you'll have to wait until the pendulum swings back. And it may never swing back to where you want it. The people in the catbird's seat care more about getting free **** than legislating drugs or how people get to **** for that matter.

You're not really listening to what i said, are you?

I'm asking for a social change away from the thinking that drug/alcohol use is cool.

I want nothing to do with changing any laws or government involvement in any of this. The possible exception being grants or other funding for PSA's the same way they did to promote the anti-smoking campaigns of yesteryear.


.

 

[BugI02]

Beedub, to me that sounds utopian

Offhand, I can't think of a single civilization that didn't use drugs/intoxicants (where enough is known about the lives of its inhabitants to draw a conclusion)

I think the best you could hope for in social change is that people are free to try drugs/intoxicants and that many will recognize that it makes them lazy and stupid. The collateral damage along the way seems unavoidable

Make the penalties for harming others in a drugged fog truly Draconian (I favor summary execution if it's me or mine) so at least some of the salvageable ones might think twice

 

[BugI02]

Like it or not, caffeine is a mind-altering drug...and I think that's the point he's trying to force here.

I don't think the government in general, and the federal government in particular, should have any say in what chemicals a person chooses to put in their body. You are clearly comfortable will *some* amount of mind-altering drug use, though it appears your threshold of comfort is relatively low concerning other intoxicants. Others are comfortable with more, ahem...exotic intoxicants.

Cocaine isn't really that scary when used sparingly. The same is true for LSD, MDMA, amphetamines, and the natural psychedelics. The scary part happens when people use too much of these chemicals, or turn to illegitimate means to support their addictions. Cocaine use spikes dramatically on the weekends...addicts fix every day, working people use on the weekends.

It's much more complex than most people want to admit, and for me the simplifier for the equation is liberty. If there is a question of agency, I'll choose my own abilities over those of the government every time.

LOL, I'm not aware of anyone robbing and looting to get their Starbuck's fix. I'm not buying the "caffeine is just like these other drugs" canard

If they're not so bad, should I assume you would go hunting in a party where some members were known to use LSD or MDMA or amphetamines (does this include Meth?) or natural psychedelics regularly? Hunting can have deadly consequences for those not at the top of their game

The same is true for me sharing the road with them or needing to rely on them in a dangerous workplace. Give me drug free/random testing please

I've never known anyone whose coffee consumption would lead me to doubt them in similar situations. Perhaps I don't get out enough

ETA: I notice an entire class of 'recreational' drugs missing (opioids). Why would that be?

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Killer Buzz: Caffeine Intoxication Is Now Evidence for an Insanity Plea

On the morning of Dec. 7, 2009, Daniel Noble went to his usual Starbucks coffee shop in Moscow, Idaho, wearing only pajamas and flip-flops, without his wallet or cellphone, and ordered two 16-ounce double-shot drinks. After downing them, the 31-year-old financial consultant drove to meet his wife, who worked across the state border at Washington State University.

On his way, he struck two college students and fled the scene. The police chased and captured Noble after a scuffle that ended with an officer using a Taser on him. He was charged with vehicular assault, hit-and-run driving and resisting arrest.

He was also taken to the hospital—where Noble’s family convened, along with defense attorney Mark Moorer of Moscow, to puzzle over the morning’s events. “He was a mainstream, strait-laced, no-record, no-problem type of guy who one day flipped the switch,” Moorer says of his client.

And an attempt:

In a third case, Woody Will Smith of Dayton, Ky., unsuccessfully argued that he made a false confession to his wife’s murder as a result of sleep deprivation brought about by too much caffeine. He was convicted in the May 2009 strangling death of his 28-year-old wife.

Not validating it, just saying there've been attempts out there, apparently. Didn't know until I just looked it up

 

[BugI02]

Killer Buzz: Caffeine Intoxication Is Now Evidence for an Insanity Plea



And an attempt:



Not validating it, just saying there've been attempts out there, apparently. Didn't know until I just looked it up

An update:
Dan Noble appeals for driving privileges | Local | dnews.com
Dan Noble appeals for driving privileges

Man accused of vehicular assault revisits court orders Friday

Doctors at Eastern State Hospital determined Noble suffered an episode of delirious mania during the event and for about two months following the December collision. Because of the rare nature of the mania, the doctors reported that Noble could possibly face another episode at any time, regardless of treatment or medication.

Sounds like the medical professionals are blaming crazy, not caffeine

 

[jamil]

You're not really listening to what i said, are you?

I'm asking for a social change away from the thinking that drug/alcohol use is cool.

I want nothing to do with changing any laws or government involvement in any of this. The possible exception being grants or other funding for PSA's the same way they did to promote the anti-smoking campaigns of yesteryear.


.

I "heard" what you said. I agreed with you about how to change attitudes. But. Currently we have federal laws that incarcerate people for this. It takes legislation to repeal those laws.