Why war with Iran would spell disaster

[cobber]

As someone mentioned upthread, the '53 coup wasn't accomplished in a vacuum; it was part of the complex pavane of counters to the Soviets influence operations around the world and it should be viewed in that context - not as a grab for oil resources.

I find it interesting that we are so inept at international relations, apparently, that all our attempts at influencing power in other nations result in unending hatred for us, while all the Soviet's influence operations have apparently not netted them such widespread hatred. I wonder why that is?

The Soviets were hated too, especially in Eastern Europe and China. HOWEVER, they were a useful counterweight to the US.

Also the US represented the status quo in much of the third world after WWII, the Soviets offered help in the interests of world revolution. Win-win for the USSR and their proxy states, while it lasted.

 

[cobber]

The future of the human race depends on preventing Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons. It doesn't matter what the sacrifice would be, how much it would cost, what it would do to the world economy, or how many of our brave fighting men would die if war became necessary.

snip

I really hope that diplomatic means work, and that Iran gives up its nuclear ambitions. But there is no room for compromise on this. Iran cannot be allowed to have a weapon. NO way, no how.

One large problem is that Europe lacks the will to stand up to Iran. The Cold War required a community of free nations to oppose the USSR. Don't really have a community any more. More like a wide-spot in the road with a gas station and a stop sign.

 

[Ted]

Of course, to use this starting date, it would be very convenient to ignore the '53 coup orchestrated by the CIA and MI6.

Of course, to do this, one would have to leave behind "the liberal fetish for root cause analysis" as I heard it called on Fox "News" on Friday. It made me wonder if the opposite of this is conservative faith in random acts of freedom hatred

Well, lets keep going back. The country allied with Nazi Germany, and changed the name its name from Persia, to Iran in 1935.

Incidentally, Iran means "Aryan" in Farsi. This should tell everyone what type of mentality that the people that has since governed the country.

The U.S. did orchestrate a coup, and placed what it thought to be a leader sympathetic to the west. Though the Shaw was just as bad as his predecessors.

Along comes the Ayatollah Khomeini, and the U.S. hostages for 444 days, ending upon day of inauguration of Ronald Reagan.........and has since maintained the same government....and nobody believes the Iran isn't a threat?

If the U.S. doesn't take care of business with Iran, be damned sure that Israel will......and the U.S. will be dragged into it.

 

[level.eleven]

The future of the human race depends on preventing Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons. It doesn't matter what the sacrifice would be, how much it would cost, what it would do to the world economy, or how many of our brave fighting men would die if war became necessary.

Preventing Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons is absolutely necessary to the future of the human race. There is no way around it.

My parents' generation lived through most of the cold war and understood the serious threat of nuclear war. The minions in Washington today in their 20s and 30s can hardly remember that time and have absolutely no clue what would happen if a hostile state like Iran became nuclear-armed.

World War II would pale in comparison to what will happen if Iran gets a bomb. "World War" is going to have a literal meaning if that day comes.

I really hope that diplomatic means work, and that Iran gives up its nuclear ambitions. But there is no room for compromise on this. Iran cannot be allowed to have a weapon. NO way, no how.

This is what I mean when I say that moral people have to prevent the acquisition of nuclear means by apocalyptic regimes vowimg their use.

It is easy to proclaim, "Bring them home! Cut aid!". Easy when foreign policy is boiled down to a game of Risk or Civilization V. Absent is ideology. Technology.

 

[thebishopp]

As someone mentioned upthread, the '53 coup wasn't accomplished in a vacuum; it was part of the complex pavane of counters to the Soviets influence operations around the world and it should be viewed in that context - not as a grab for oil resources.

I find it interesting that we are so inept at international relations, apparently, that all our attempts at influencing power in other nations result in unending hatred for us, while all the Soviet's influence operations have apparently not netted them such widespread hatred. I wonder why that is?

That was our (America's) reported main reason. The Brits reported reasons was the loss of control of Iran's oil resources.

Still whether I like communism or not I can't support overthrowing a foreign government because it is or "might" become a communist country.

I do too, better marketing departments maybe? You'd figure after the Russian flop in Afghanistan they would hate Russians.

 

[rambone]

The hype about Iran being the next big threat is a whole lot of war propaganda. I have no doubt that the warmongers will get their wish.

 

[rambone]

 

[GunSlinger]

You are one FUNNY guy.



It is not a matter of "IF" but more of "WHEN".

Pull out a world map and really look at it. Now check out which countries iran borders. Now where have our U.S. troops been hanging out for years now?

Ask a solider near you what the scuttlebutt has been. Regardless of what our public opinions are or which administration's in-charge, our U.S. military will do what needs to be done.

We could debate our Iranian nuke policy in this thread until hell freezes over but nothing changes the known fact that the Iranians already posses the capability to launch nuke dirty rockets on Israel. It doesn't have to be weapons grade material. Just load up a warhead with 250 pounds of low grade material and launch them. The ensuing impacts will spread enough low to medium grade radioactive material to make parts of Israel uninhabitable for at least a couple hundred years. Not to mention the radiation exposure hazards to the population.

And with allies like North Korea, Russia, and China I would bet my life that they already have a couple simple nuke weapons not of thier own creation. Even with "crippling" sanctions in place they have more than enough money to purchase some of the 83 man portable nuke weapons that Russia STILL can't account for...where are they? They're out there somewhere and are no doubt available for the right price.

Don't forget, they also directly sponsor quite a few terrorists groups that would love to turn Israel into a desolate wasteland, and with thousands of miles of unprotected border with Canada and Mexico all you need to do is to get just one of those MPNW's across into the US. Guess what happens then.

Iran HAS nuke capability right now and they can rudimentary rock our world today.

 

[cobber]

The hype about Iran being the next big threat is a whole lot of war propaganda. I have no doubt that the warmongers will get their wish.

But, but, I thought China was the next threat?!!

It's so confusing...

 

[Denny347]

We could debate our Iranian nuke policy in this thread until hell freezes over but nothing changes the known fact that the Iranians already posses the capability to launch nuke dirty rockets on Israel. It doesn't have to be weapons grade material. Just load up a warhead with 250 pounds of low grade material and launch them. The ensuing impacts will spread enough low to medium grade radioactive material to make parts of Israel uninhabitable for at least a couple hundred years. Not to mention the radiation exposure hazards to the population.

And with allies like North Korea, Russia, and China I would bet my life that they already have a couple simple nuke weapons not of thier own creation. Even with "crippling" sanctions in place they have more than enough money to purchase some of the 83 man portable nuke weapons that Russia STILL can't account for...where are they? They're out there somewhere and are no doubt available for the right price.

Don't forget, they also directly sponsor quite a few terrorists groups that would love to turn Israel into a desolate wasteland, and with thousands of miles of unprotected border with Canada and Mexico all you need to do is to get just one of those MPNW's across into the US. Guess what happens then.

Iran HAS nuke capability right now and they can rudimentary rock our world today.

What are they waiting for then?

 

[cobber]

What are they waiting for then?

The US presidential election?

 

[Kutnupe14]

You might wish to re-examine the starting point as being November 4, 1979. That was the day the US Embassy was stormed and diplomats and Marines taken as hostages.

Your starting point is incorrect. I suggest you read up on the backstory as to "why" it was stormed. If you tell a guy to "get off my property," and they refuse, one is completely justified in removing them.

 

[poptab]

We could debate our Iranian nuke policy in this thread until hell freezes over but nothing changes the known fact that the Iranians already posses the capability to launch nuke dirty rockets on Israel. It doesn't have to be weapons grade material. Just load up a warhead with 250 pounds of low grade material and launch them. The ensuing impacts will spread enough low to medium grade radioactive material to make parts of Israel uninhabitable for at least a couple hundred years. Not to mention the radiation exposure hazards to the population.

And with allies like North Korea, Russia, and China I would bet my life that they already have a couple simple nuke weapons not of thier own creation. Even with "crippling" sanctions in place they have more than enough money to purchase some of the 83 man portable nuke weapons that Russia STILL can't account for...where are they? They're out there somewhere and are no doubt available for the right price.

Don't forget, they also directly sponsor quite a few terrorists groups that would love to turn Israel into a desolate wasteland, and with thousands of miles of unprotected border with Canada and Mexico all you need to do is to get just one of those MPNW's across into the US. Guess what happens then.

Iran HAS nuke capability right now and they can rudimentary rock our world today.

According to all the Intelligence in the public domain, Iran has no nuclear capability and wont have until at least 2015.

 

[jeremy]

Phylo for President!

 

[Denny347]

Phylo for President!

 

[jeremy]

I think the Author takes a LOT of liberties with his deductive reasoning.

1.) I feel if Iran were to attempt to close the Straits, a LOT of their Neighbors would have little to no problem sinking everyone of their glorified bass boats, with absolutely no intervention or support needed from the US.

2.) Israel, is not the only Country in that area that is nervous about Iran having nukes and a nuclear program. I would bet hard cash every Country in the Arab Peninsula is just as nervous as Israel is.

3.) 8th largest Military would seriously delay us?! Doubt it, if I recall correctly were they not saying the same things about Iraq in '03?! Were they not like the 5th largest Military in the World when we steamrolled them up in like a Week and Half, and that was with 2 timeouts...

4.) A LOT of persons confuse the fact that Iran is Muslim and therefore a secret ally with the other Muslim Countries in the World. Very, very far from reality actually. Iran is Persian, the Arabs still think of it as Persian. Not to mention they are the wrong kind of Muslims. The only possible allies for Iran in the region based on Muslim backgrounds could be the Iraqis, and the Jordanians, well might include part of Afghanistan in that as well...

 

[GunSlinger]

What are they waiting for then?

The best timing?

According to all the Intelligence in the public domain, Iran has no nuclear capability and wont have until at least 2015.

That was meant to be in purple right?

 

[rambone]

We could debate our Iranian nuke policy in this thread until hell freezes over but nothing changes the known fact that the Iranians already posses the capability to launch nuke dirty rockets on Israel. It doesn't have to be weapons grade material. Just load up a warhead with 250 pounds of low grade material and launch them. The ensuing impacts will spread enough low to medium grade radioactive material to make parts of Israel uninhabitable for at least a couple hundred years. Not to mention the radiation exposure hazards to the population.

Why would they destroy the land that they worship?

 

[NYFelon]

Why would they destroy the land that they worship?

Because they're always calling for death to Israel in their rhetoric! Don't you know politicians/leaders always practice what they preach?

The more important question is, wtf business is it of ours if two regional states go to war.

 

[downzero]

The more important question is, wtf business is it of ours if two regional states go to war.

Nuclear war is just not the same. The death and destruction possible by just a single thermonuclear device detonated on any populated area on earth is not just a "war," it'd be a slaughter.