Why the .40 ?

[BehindBlueI's]

I'm not arguing energy to be the only deciding factor here for the record. There are many factors that will influence a bullets effectiveness as I stated in one of my previous posts, and you do need to look at all of them.

however, it certainly is a very good starting point.

again, were talking bullets vs bullets here. Not arrows vs bullets. Lets try to keep this a heads up comparison and not apples and oranges. And if you're comparing say hst .40 to hst .45, ballistic gel tests have proven that .40 is just as effective.

Handgun Ammo Gel Penetration - Kobalt's Place - Gallery - ASMDSS

and for the record, I skip on 9mm because I don't think it's an effective enough round.

At this point, I'm not sure even you know what you're arguing for. You do list other factors, but go on to say that energy is the most common measure of a caliber's effectiveness. You specifically say "energy is what matters in the end", minimizing those factors.

Now you're saying energy is still a good place to start but then immediately reference ballistic gel tests? How does that even jive?

Ok, show us how muzzle energy matters. Explain why its a good measure as to the effectiveness of a handgun caliber. Explain how the chart you linked has the 'strongest' cartridge having 25% more muzzle energy than the 'weakest', yet all obtain similar results (and the 'strongest' is one of the worst penetrators).

Explain to us why you think the .40 is effective because its proven to be just as good as the .45 in ballistic tests, yet the 9mm is an ineffective cartridge even though in the same chart you just linked to, its also just as good as the .45 in ballistic tests?

 

[roadrunner681]

I'm not arguing energy to be the only deciding factor here for the record. There are many factors that will influence a bullets effectiveness as I stated in one of my previous posts, and you do need to look at all of them.

however, it certainly is a very good starting point.

again, were talking bullets vs bullets here. Not arrows vs bullets. Lets try to keep this a heads up comparison and not apples and oranges. And if you're comparing say hst .40 to hst .45, ballistic gel tests have proven that .40 is just as effective.

Handgun Ammo Gel Penetration - Kobalt's Place - Gallery - ASMDSS

and for the record, I skip on 9mm because I don't think it's an effective enough round.

if it can make it at least 12 inches though ballistics gel with a good bullet i doubt a fella will know the difference between a 9mm and a 40

 

[Rob377]

.40 is the minimum bullet diameter for major in USPSA limited or limited 10. The only class that scores 9mm loaded to major is open.

If you want to shoot limited in USPSA you pretty much have to have a .40

That's the only compelling reason to buy a 40. That, and for making friends with Que.

If you don't want to shoot limited or limited10, there is no point to buying a 40. If you want to shoot either of those divisions, 40 is pretty much a must-have.

***You may now return to your pistol cartridge 'stopping power' slapfight in progress***

 

[jtwilson3]

Comparing the same gun (smith and wesson m&p full size) my friend has a .40 and brother has a .45. The .45 feels so much nicer to shoot. It feels so smooth when it is shooting. the .40 kind of kicks, at least feels like it to me.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

***You may now return to your pistol cartridge 'stopping power' slapfight in progress***

 

[seedubs1]

At this point, I'm not sure even you know what you're arguing for. You do list other factors, but go on to say that energy is the most common measure of a caliber's effectiveness. You specifically say "energy is what matters in the end", minimizing those factors.

Now you're saying energy is still a good place to start but then immediately reference ballistic gel tests? How does that even jive?

Ok, show us how muzzle energy matters. Explain why its a good measure as to the effectiveness of a handgun caliber. Explain how the chart you linked has the 'strongest' cartridge having 25% more muzzle energy than the 'weakest', yet all obtain similar results (and the 'strongest' is one of the worst penetrators).

Explain to us why you think the .40 is effective because its proven to be just as good as the .45 in ballistic tests, yet the 9mm is an ineffective cartridge even though in the same chart you just linked to, its also just as good as the .45 in ballistic tests?

You explain to me why you have such a stick up your butt about energy

name one single better generally used method of comparing bullets. Momentum.....maybe. All others are fairly useless on their own. Hence my first post only mentioning energy. When comparing bullets, it's the one single spec that can be referenced without having to go through multiple others. Does it give you 100% of the information you would need? No, but it immediately gives you an idea about the potential of the round.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

You explain to me why you have such a stick up your butt about energy

Any stick up my butt is about people passing on bad information. I'm also willing to learn, hence my questions. Of course I'm going to correct bad info, along with providing reasoning and sources, so that other people who are willing to learn can do so instead of falling for false statements that have been disproven decades ago.

So far you've provided absolutely nothing to back up your statements and have started to contradict yourself. Since you're now down to butt comments, I'm guessing you've realized you can't defend your position because it was simply wrong. I'm disappointed that the best a college educated mechanical engineer can come up with is "nuh-uh, energy does matter". If you'd actually take the time to learn about wounds and ballistics and apply your existing knowledge to that, you'd probably be in the position to actually add something to the conversation.

 

[timsdl72]

Since I'm not sure whether it is good or bad fortune, I'll just say that I have the "opportunity" to work with highly educated and degreed people in both mechanical and electrical engineering fields. While they frequently provide some amusement, there is a reason the intelligent ones call for a skilled and experienced tradesman to help with field work. The "smart" ones somehow think the book reflected real life scenarios and love to explain why it should work. I've spent countless hours and dollars on correcting "smart" peoples assumptions because real world introduces more unknowns than can be measured beforehand. Afterward, nobody cares that much.

Maybe it's similar with real world shootings. Give your best calculations and effort to bullet / cartridge design and within some range if variables, a whole lot of combinations provide a workable solution. All I know is that the .22 or 9mm (ineffectively perhaps) actually do function.

 

[seedubs1]

So far you've provided absolutely nothing to back up your statements and have started to contradict yourself.

Well if that isn't the pot calling the kettle black

thanks for your informative posts on why energy is a bad thing to look at when comparing apples to apples bullets (.40 to .45). Not arrows or baseball bats

 

[roadrunner681]

Well if that isn't the pot calling the kettle black

thanks for your informative posts on why energy is a bad thing to look at when comparing apples to apples bullets (.40 to .45). Not arrows or baseball bats

his comments i think were more toward the idea of only looking at energy vs the other variables bullet design, velocity, impacting velocity, and the Resistance the target will present, while 40 cal may have more energy or may hit with a bit more authority i doubt that a target will notice the difference between the two or a 9mm ether. its like comparing 260 rem to 6.5 creedmore energy there so close that it's pointless.

 

[Shift Zombie]

Battle of the couch commandos continues.

 

[seedubs1]

his comments i think were more toward the idea of only looking at energy vs the other variables bullet design, velocity, impacting velocity, and the Resistance the target will present, while 40 cal may have more energy or may hit with a bit more authority i doubt that a target will notice the difference between the two or a 9mm ether. its like comparing 260 rem to 6.5 creedmore energy there so close that it's pointless.

Correct. And my original post was geared at showing the .40 wasn't less of a round than .45, and with the increased capacity available in a lot of firearms, it's a good round to consider.

 

[roadrunner681]

Correct. And my original post was geared at showing the .40 wasn't less of a round than .45, and with the increased capacity available in a lot of firearms, it's a good round to consider.

it is a round worth considering, but personally i like 9mm and 357 mag though i would like a 10 mm

 

[Killion]

Get a 10mm and this discussion is over


The OP never said a word about carrying a .40. The OP doesn't care about energy. The OP doesn't care which caliber is better. He doesn't care what carry guns you have in .40.

He has forty calibre brass that he picked up. He wants to load it and shoot it for USPSA (not IPDA!!) It will be a light load to just make major power factor. It will have **** for energy. It will be a lead target load, not defensive ammo.

Noel, buy a .40 shoot limited or limited 10. what ever you want to do! I have .40 brass that I am saving so that I will have an excuse to buy a 40. But, I'm not a ***** so my limited gun will have a 10mm barrel in it until match day!

 

[seedubs1]

it is a round worth considering, but personally i like 9mm and 357 mag though i would like a 10 mm

Nothing quite like a 10mm

 

[Shift Zombie]

Be a man, buy a Grizzly and carry .45 Winchester Mag.

 

[buckshotJ]

I love my Taurus PT92 for plinking, but I have to have my .45 for self defense. Never liked the .40

 

[Killion]

SINCE NOBODY READS THE ORIGINAL POST I WILL COPY AND PASTE IT. I EVEN HIGHLIGHTED THE IMPORTANT PART OF HIS POST. NOTICE THE RED FONT AND ESPECIALLY THE BLUE

Shooting at the range and picking up brass after IDPA and USPSA matches, I'm starting to acquire quite a bit of .40 caliber brass. This gives rise to the question: Should I sell the brass or buy some dies and a new gun ? ​

Are there any advantages to the .40 ? More recoil than the 9mm but less than the .45 ?​

I don't plan on carrying the gun​

- just shooting it in competition events. I can load up to 147 gr. bullets in the 9mm - which easily gets me to a power factor in major. Minimum bullet size for the .40 is ?​

Besides the dies I'd also have start inventorying separate bullets. I haven't done a lot of research, but would hope I wouldn't have inventory totally different powder(s).

Other than just acquiring another gun for the "fun" of it, are there reasons I should consider the .40 caliber ?

Thanks in advance​

 

[Amishman44]

I have a G27 that, currently, is my EDC! It's small, concealable, comfortable to shoot and I carry 180 grain, JHP, Winchester PDX1's in it! I do have a +1 Glock factory mag extension on it to give me a little better grip and help in controlling muzzle-flip / recoil...but other than that it's a great little gun!

I also have a Gen 2 G23...which is a fantastic shooter! I got the G27 for summer carry concealment purposes...and simply fell in love with it!

In response to your original post...I would say, 'Yes' get a .40 and reload your own and enjoy! Nothing wrong with trying something new once in a while...and, who knows, you make really enjoy it!

 

[VERT]

Way to go and ruin a good .40 thread Killion! Neg Rep inbound.

It has been said a couple of times already. The reason to shoot .40S&W in USPSA is to make limited major. As far as recoil vs the 9mm, since the OP is reloading I am betting he could come up with a bunny fart load that still makes power factor and will not have any more perceived recoil. I used to have a Glock 35 that was very comfortable to shoot, especially with lighter loads and a little bit lighter recoil spring.

Honestly the 9mm vs .40 is not as different as people on the interwebs will lead you to believe. Both are fine cartridges, both are easy enough to shoot. Not really a comment directed to this thread (I think there is a similar thread going on right now.) but I will say that the .40S&W offers a lot a good choices for self defense ammo. Afterall it was a adopted by a lot of law enforcement agencies so there was consideration given to this when developing ammunition.