Why do "smart" people point guns at themselves?

[bwframe]

What is "holstered", "cased", and "disassembled" though? Where do you draw the line on those?

What about an AOW wallet holster that still permits the gun to fire when holstered? Does that fit the guidelines of your exceptions to handle guns differently?

"Cased" is also pretty subjective...

But the real zinger is "disassembled". At what point in the disassembly of a firearm is it "disassembled enough" to be safe?

You see, it still appears that you're drawing arbitrary lines in the sand based upon YOUR opinions. Yet you belittle those that feel the line is in a different place than yours... I find this somewhat laughable... it's playing out exactly the same way as the last time...


What is "shooting condition"? I need this to be defined properly so I can handle my guns safely... because clearly nobody else can possibly handle firearms safely without following your arbitrary lines in the sand. I just need to be sure I understand where your particular line is so I don't cross it...

The Four Rules of gun safely are not mine. I'm just a messenger. It's your business if you choose to shoot the messenger (along with yourself, friends, family, etc.) These well established rules are taught throughout the country and have been for decades.

As evidenced in this thread, folks looking to parse every word and it's meaning to somehow invalidate the need for safe gun handling is a common attempt. Some have difficulty understanding the need for safety because they haven't shot anyone yet. A concerted effort to be safe with life ending tools is too much for some to muster, so they fight it.

I'm sorry that you have become jaded for being called out for your dangerous poor gun handling habits in the past. I understand that some folks have a real problem with authority and having to relearn what they "already know."

Again, it's your business how you conduct yourself, as long as you don't do it around me. You are welcome to your smarter than established safety rules mentality. Shoot yourself and those around you all you choose. The only detriment is to those of us left to try to maintain our rights while explaining that not all of us "get it," in reference to the responsibility of safe gun handling.

 

[SteveM4A1]

I never knew it was okay to point my gun at myself and pull the trigger as long as I think it's unloaded. This will be fun!

 

[One Shot One Kill]

I wonder how many people on this forum preaching the 4 rules as the gospel have dry fired their guns for practice? Nothing wrong with following the 4 rules, but I think they are more of a guideline; Wipe off the cobwebs and use the thing between your ears and you should be juuuust fiiine. My idea of rule #1 is modified simply to: don't point a gun at anything you can't afford a bullet to go into; the ground and brick walls don't qualify for this, and obviously living creatures (with exception of course) and thin barriers qualify.

 

[output]

I will probably catch lots of hell for this. The four safety rules were created in order to instill a "safety first" mindset. To teach respect for a firearms destructive capabilities...and 95% of the time I agree with keeping to them. There are however occasions where they can be departed from. For example, even while a pistol is holstered it will at some point during the day probably be pointing at part of your body. It might be when you are walking, sitting, bending over, or even the entire time. I don't care how or where you choose to wear your holster it will happen. Does that mean you should not carry a gun? Of course not. We know a gun is safe as long as the trigger guard is protected and no one is pulling the trigger. In the pictures posted by the OP the person handling the gun had their fingers well away from the trigger, that indicated to me that he was safely handling the pistol. If a reviewer wants to point a gun at himself what is the big deal? It is his gun and his body.

 

[CountryBoy19]

The Four Rules of gun safely are not mine. I'm just a messenger. It's your business if you choose to shoot the messenger (along with yourself, friends, family, etc.) These well established rules are taught throughout the country and have been for decades.

Well established? Even the Wikipedia article you pointed to demonstrates very clearly that there is some level of dissension on the rules... I'm "shooting the messenger" because you choose to belittle others (as you are clearly doing here) because they don't agree with your point of view...

I'm sorry that you have become jaded for being called out for your dangerous poor gun handling habits in the past. I understand that some folks have a real problem with authority and having to relearn what they "already know."

Huh? That is laughable... when have I EVER been called out for dangerous, poor gun handling habits? Please, point me in the direction... You can't, because the act of pointing a gun (verified as empty or inoperable with proper procedures and layers of verification in place) at somebody isn't anymore dangerous than a gun sitting on a table. Do you have anything to back up your opinion? We can go all-out like the last thread, where-in I provide real evidence to backup my view, you scream insults and derogatory statements, and we get nowhere...

I have no problem with authority... It seems that you have a problem with people that have critical thinking skills, understand risk assessment/mitigation, and practice common sense gun handling. That's fine, you continue to live in your utopian, liberal mindset, where everything is black & white, and your superior knowledge trumps everybody else...

Again, it's your business how you conduct yourself, as long as you don't do it around me. You are welcome to your smarter than established safety rules mentality. Shoot yourself and those around you all you choose. The only detriment is to those of us left to try to maintain our rights while explaining that not all of us "get it," in reference to the responsibility of safe gun handling.

Trust me, I won't do it around you, I wouldn't be caught dead around you. I don't trust people that cannot think for themselves and lack basic common sense understanding of risk and mechanical objects...

 

[bwframe]

Ah, now I know what the deal is with those guys I see at the gun shows. The one's careless of any muzzle discipline, pointing their guns at anyone and everyone, themselves included. They are critical thinkers.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...un-store-dumb-gun-handling-4.html#post1564100

 

[ChalupaCabras]

There is a lot of value in "The Rules" ... And it is definately where everyone should start.

However, anyone with experience shooting in a dynamic environment knows that it is not possible to observe them (especially the way they are worded on the first page) every second and instance of a changing situation. Perhaps for the average Joe who only ever punches some occasional paper on a square range, but in realistic training.

Dont ever shoot unless your sights are clearly on the target? Have you ever fired from retention? Can you not imagine a scenario where you would need to shoot someone at arms length or less?

All guns are always loaded? Have you ever practiced force on force, or pistol retention techniques? They don't end until one of you points the gun at the other and dry fires. This is why they make snap caps.

If you really LOOK at how these rules are written, the examples people use of others violating them all revolve around stationary fire at the square range or BS'ing inside the gun store. Thats not how I shoot or train, and it's not how any modern force shoots or trains.

 

[ScouT6a]

I consider myself a "smart" person. With that being said, where people get in trouble is by becoming lazy, complacent and careless. When I clear a weapon, I know it is clear. It's not rocket science. Whatever type of firearm you have in your hand, you clear the feed mechanism and you clear the chamber. Check, double check; triple check. Then I DON'T put the barrel to my head and drop the hammer BUT I don't freak out if, at some point, I point the gun at my hand, leg or alarm clock. If I wasn't "smart" enough to handle this simple task of clearing my weapons, I'd more than likely have a multitude of other problems in my life. My truck might drive off on it's own because I forgot to put it in park when I stepped out. My sink might over flow because I forgot to turn off the faucet. My animals might die because I forgot to feed them.
I spent 22 1/2 years in combat arms, in the Army. We pointed weapons at each other in training all the time. Not just unloaded weapons but weapons loaded with blanks. Oh, the horror
Rush across an objective and have your support element shift fire off the objective, seconds before you get on the X. Stack up on a door, in a pitch black building, while wearing night vision, ready to clear the room with M4s at the low ready. Roll up on a bunker in order to throw a grenade inside while your buddy is putting suppressive fire through the opening.
"Smart" people, safely handling firearms........it's all subjective

 

[snowwalker]

How do you visually check the timing of a revolver without breaking rule 1? steve, bw kirk how do you do it? I really want an answer to this one, really more IF you can answer this one. I look forward to your answers!

 

[SteveM4A1]

How do you visually check the timing of a revolver without breaking rule 1? steve, bw kirk how do you do it? I really want an answer to this one, really more IF you can answer this one. I look forward to your answers!

There is no rule 1 for me. It is dead weight.

 

[snowwalker]

Ok, steve has no answer, how about you kirk?

 

[JetGirl]

"Don't worry, it's not loaded"

I've cleared a lot of rounds out of guns people said weren't loaded.

 

[kalboy]

I've cleared a lot of rounds out of guns people said weren't loaded.

I don't doubt that a bit. One can only imagine what is seen by those working the gun shop floor.

 

[JetGirl]

I don't doubt that a bit. One can only imagine what is seen by those working the gun shop floor.

 

[kalboy]

Always amazed but seldom surprised.... must be your attitude regarding this kind of thing. That jar , is it displayed at the shop you work at? Kinda surprised it wasn't more like a 5 gallon bucket! The jar just photographed better right?

 

[SteveM4A1]

Ok, steve has no answer, how about you kirk?

I gave you an answer. Rule 1 shouldn't exist. If I am following rules 2-4, then I have nothing to worry about.

 

[bwframe]

How do you visually check the timing of a revolver without breaking rule 1? steve, bw kirk how do you do it? I really want an answer to this one, really more IF you can answer this one. I look forward to your answers!

You have to have a desire to be safe in your gun handling. If you keep parsing every word and looking for excuses, you'll always be sloppy, dangerous and a concern to others.

 

[indiucky]

Mine is a coffee cup....Just as full.....I have had a couple of guys say, "Oh I forgot to get my ammo out..."

I always say "It's mine now" and put it in the cup......

Muzzleloaders are the tough ones.....

 

[snowwalker]

bw, I see you can't answer the revolver check either. I gave no excuses, but there are very few absolutes in real life and that includes the 4 rules, as I have pointed out.

 

[Jackson]

Good to know. Because I heard dry fire will get you killed in the streets anyway.

There sure are a lot of things that get you killed in the streets. These must be some dangerous streets.