Why are illegal aliens ALLOWED to protest HERE?

[SavageEagle]

Guys... guys....

If "getting tough" on illegal immigration means sacrificing the 4th Amendment, you can all COUNT ME OUT.

Right now the Government does not have the power or the right to just go around "carding" people, or demanding to see their "papers." There is a very good reason the Constitution prohibits that. Please realize and understand that.

You might think you are taking the gloves off, and unafraid to offend people, but what you are really doing is eroding the rights of all of us, forever. I'll be on the opposing side to that bright idea.

A lot of us get upset when people get carded for displaying their sidearm! How pissed will you be when you are being carded for NOTHING but standing on the sidewalk?? "National ID please!"


You want to be constructive, realize this. These people are merely pawns. They are the result of Government policies that have enticed them - practically begged them - to come to this country. The people who made these policies are those that you should direct your comments to.

These are the solutions: Oppose Amnesty. Get rid of the handouts. Enforce the laws that are already in place on employers who illegally hire undocumented workers. Oppose a National ID card. Defend the Constitution!!

I wouldn't be that upset if the law was changed such that in order for a child born here to be a citizen, at least one parent must already be a citizen. Gets rid of some of the enticement to rush over the border when the mother's water breaks and have the baby in a U.S. hospital.


But seriously, knock it off with the "carding." You guys scare me sometimes. You have more to fear from the Government than you do from these muchachos.

So the police have no right to see your ID when you're pulled over or questioned as a suspect? Read the bill. They have to be detained for a crime before they can just ask for their papers/ID. That's the problem, people aren't reading the bill. They hear "Papers please" and go nuts.

Want a real solution? Close the border. Want in? Better have a damn good reason. Anyone caught illegally crossing the border, be warned. Use of deadly force has been authorized. Then, sort out the mess we have here now. No Amnesty. Suspected illegals and proven illegals checked, then deported. Come back, get shot. Don't allow criminals from other countries in ours period. Want to come to this Country? Prove you're coming to be a CITIZEN and have a job waiting. Can't prove both? Come back when you can.

Once the mess is sorted out, reopen the borders with tight restrictions.

Not the best choice, but the only choice we're going to have if they don't figure out something better.

 

[djl02]

Amazing Racist: Illegal Mexicans | whoisthemonkey.com

Dont get offended just watch. Its funny,most have probibly done seen it ,its been out for years,youtube took it down.

 

[junglerogue]

It's like no one wants to address the blatantly obvious fact...that they are illegal. Meaning that regardless of what social message they have, they have no entitled rights to freedoms under the AMERICAN constitution! GO HOME OR DO IT RIGHT!

 

[JBusch8899]

.....they have no entitled rights to freedoms under the AMERICAN constitution!

Actually, they do. Rights don't disappear for the individual, just because they happen to be a criminal, regardless of legal status.

Its apparently a misconceived point of the original intent of the framers, but it still remains law.

 

[rambone]

So the police have no right to see your ID when you're pulled over or questioned as a suspect? Read the bill. They have to be detained for a crime before they can just ask for their papers/ID. That's the problem, people aren't reading the bill. They hear "Papers please" and go nuts.

Savage, I was responding to the title of this thread, and all the folks talking about herding up protesters like a bunch of animals. Not talking about any bills.

Since I value my right to peaceably assemble without proving that I should be "allowed" I took these comments personally. I've been to a few protests myself.

 

[E5RANGER375]

if businesses would follow the law and not hire illegals then the police wouldnt have to go track the vermin down and card them!!! before we start goin gestapo on their azzes, we need to look for the way to make them wanna leave on their own, so heres my solution: we need to put STIFF penalties in place so that businesses will be put under if they dont follow the law. i dont see how we have such a problem punishing businesses for ILLEGALY HIRING CRIMINALS!!!!!! when just for citizen possesion of a unregistered SBR (even with no il-intent)you will lose your freedom for 10 years or more. see something wrong with that picture???? I DO!!! we have the stupid actions in this country that we always wanna protect businesses, well seems like thats another reason we keep getting ripped off by them!!!! we turn a blind eye to their illegal activity until the damages reaches into the millions or billions. i dont care if your business is "Joes friendly watermellon pickers" and your worth is only $10K, but you have illegals working for you >>>>> shut them down!!!

shut it down at the source ..... THEIR ABILITY TO MAKE MONEY!!!! and you have you solution. they will go back on their own. and the ones who stay to be criminals, will get shot. simple. we need to hurry because they are breeding like rabbits people!!! and all their kids become citizens because WE DONT have a law that says if your parents are here illegaly and your born here you ARE NOT A CITIZEN!!! what a crock of sh*t.


heh heh heh hhe ...... i said STIFF. huh huh huh uh uh hu

 

[junglerogue]

Learn me something...How is it that the law (constitution) protects illegals and is applicable to them, if the illegals have made no attempt to assimilate and uphold the constitution in which they are now taking part in? I'm not against treating someone with humanity/dignity, but illegals are not seeking political asylum, they are not seeking to change their citizenship, they do not pay taxes, they burden our government; yet the generalization is that they feel they are entitled to all other benefits of an American citizen...why? Because America is more desirable than Mexico?!.

 

[E5RANGER375]

Learn me something...How is it that the law (constitution) protects illegals and is applicable to them, if the illegals have made no attempt to assimilate and uphold the constitution in which they are now taking part in?

it doesnt. thats just something the "susie do good'ers" tell you to try and smooze you over and make you look at the criminal imigrants and feel sorry for them. you need to look at them as 12 more years of Obama and then Pelosi will be next in line to be crowned. NOTICE: i said 12 years!!! yep, because if you think his term limits are gonna apply if he gets all them votes then your wrong. they will squash the constitution and declare marshal law and then you are boned.

heres my personal view: ANYONE NOT AMERICAN (not an American Citizen) can kiss my azz and get in line. i dont give a flying crap about ANYONE except Americans and America. We have our own problems to fix FIRST before we start becoming the local world food bank or welfare check line for the countries of the world. We dont work our azzes off to pay for MOHAHMEDS education or dinner in his sorry third world terrorist country!!! Also i feel that all them Saudi's can go screw themselves too! bunch of terrorist goat bangers. and little jaffar in africa is starving,,,, oh so sad realy, but NOT MY PROBLEM!! I guess instead of killing each other and raping women they should be planting gardens or eating some of them lions and tigers!!! AMERICA FIRST, and if that makes me an ELITEST A HOLE then i will be proud to take the title. because Americans ARE BETTER than everyone else!! My ancesters died to START America and many died to deffend it since, and it continues today!!! So i feel i should have a little more say in the matter of it than hakalakahemalikemho from pakistan who wants to be a citizen and then try to bomb times square but was too stupid to do it right. oooooooow i said it, im not being PC, no purple either, oh no.

 

[SavageEagle]

Savage, I was responding to the title of this thread, and all the folks talking about herding up protesters like a bunch of animals. Not talking about any bills.

Since I value my right to peaceably assemble without proving that I should be "allowed" I took these comments personally. I've been to a few protests myself.

It's one thing when WE protest and rally. It's another when a crowd full of arrestable criminals protest and rally. That's like letting a prison let all the death row prisoners loose so they can rally in downtown Indy saying they should all be let free cause they didn't do anything wrong. Doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[junglerogue]

What really burns me is that my parents spent good money to do it right, because hopping across the Pacific ocean wasn't applicable! I love my country and I wish everyone in America loved it as much, and had the decency to abide by its rules! If it gets to the point where amnesty is granted, I think my parents should be reimbursed for the inconvenience of legal fees for having done it right.

 

[JBusch8899]

Learn me something...How is it that the law (constitution) protects illegals and is applicable to them, if the illegals have made no attempt to assimilate and uphold the constitution in which they are now taking part in? I'm not against treating someone with humanity/dignity, but illegals are not seeking political asylum, they are not seeking to change their citizenship, they do not pay taxes, they burden our government; yet the generalization is that they feel they are entitled to all other benefits of an American citizen...why? Because America is more desirable than Mexico?!.

Perhaps this will help.

Learn me something...How is it that the law (constitution) protects[strike] illegals[/strike] Al Capone and is applicable to [strike]them[/strike] him, if [strike]the illegals[/strike] Al Capone [strike]have[/strike] has made no attempt to assimilate and uphold the constitution in which they are now taking part in? I'm not against treating someone with humanity/dignity, but[strike] illegals[/strike] criminals are not seeking political asylum, [strike]they[/strike] he are not seeking to change [strike]their[/strike] his citizenship, [strike]they[/strike] he do not pay taxes, [strike]they[/strike] he burden our government; yet the generalization is that [strike]they[/strike] he [strike]feel[/strike] feels [strike]they[/strike] he [strike]are[/strike] is entitled to all [strike]other[/strike] benefits of [strike]an[/strike] law abiding American citizen...why? Because America is more desirable than [strike]Mexico[/strike] Italy?!.

America is not just a nation of substantive laws, its also a nation of procedural laws. All peoples are entitled to such rights as due process under the American form of jurisprudence. The slippery slope of abridging the rights of illegal aliens, can quite very realistically apply to you next.

 

[junglerogue]

So to clarify, even if someone makes no attempt or has no desire to be a citizen of America (and yet wants and enjoys all the benefits of citizenship), the Constitution still applies in dealing with the individual? Al Capone wasn't a citizen??? If so, WOW! That was a colossal fail!

 

[JBusch8899]

So to clarify, even if someone makes no attempt or has no desire to be a citizen of America (and yet wants and enjoys all the benefits of citizenship), the Constitution still applies in dealing with the individual? Al Capone wasn't a citizen??? If so, WOW! That was a colossal fail!

The point was a response to your post, that a person that had no desire to obey the law, still enjoys the rights that America guarantees.

Additionally, many persons merely visiting this country, are entitled to the rights guaranteed under the constitution.

 

[rambone]

It's one thing when WE protest and rally. It's another when a crowd full of arrestable criminals protest and rally. That's like letting a prison let all the death row prisoners loose so they can rally in downtown Indy saying they should all be let free cause they didn't do anything wrong. Doesn't make any sense to me.

Believe me, it is not my love of lawbreakers that has me taking this position, it is my fear of our own Government.

It is slightly different than the prison analogy because all of those people have gone through the legal system. Given due process. A trial, etc. They are not free to enjoy the 4th Amendment. Random people on the street (some being citizens), are a totally different kind of situation. We don't live in that kind of police state, yet.

If you are just going to wade through a crowd of "arrestables," how can we be sure we aren't infringing on the rights of actual citizens? After all there are real citizens who join those rallies. Infringing on the rights of even one citizen is going too far for me. I'm not willing to give the Federal Government that kind of power. You give them an inch and they will take a mile. Surely we all know this.

The point was a response to your post, that a person that had no desire to obey the law, still enjoys the rights that America guarantees.

Additionally, many persons merely visiting this country, are entitled to the rights guaranteed under the constitution.

I want to use this post as an illustration to get my point across.

The reason any of us can "enjoy our rights" is because the Government has a leash tied around its neck, known as the 4th Amendment to the US Constitution. We can't very well keep our Government in check if we allow it to tyrannize some people and expect the rest of us to keep our right to privacy. You simply cannot have it both ways. Either they are allowed to "card" you any time you step foot into public, or they can't.

As I said, don't give them an inch. Unless someday you want to be demanded that you show your National ID card any given day, to assure that the streets are free of illegal immigrants. Agents of the Government do not have the right to do this, should not have the right to do this, and must never have the right to do this. Make the Government get achieve probable cause, as the Founders intended.

Brown skin is not probable cause. Being on the town square is not probable cause. Speaking Spanish is not probable cause. Being at a foolish liberal rally is not probable cause.


I already offered some alternatives to the "roundup" that do not infringe the Constitution. Please take this seriously, the goal is to whip you all into a frenzy so that you happily give the Government more power, in order to save you from the "crisis."

 

[JBusch8899]

Believe me, it is not my love of lawbreakers that has me taking this position, it is my fear of our own Government.

Believe me, I share your sentiments.

I look at the Immigration laws, and have a number of lawful and common sense suggestions that I have shared with my congressman that will never become law. Why? Probably because there's money in it to someone, somewhere.

I also look at FISA and the Patriot Act, expressing my concerns as above, of the real potential of the trampling not only a citizen's rights, but everyone's rights.

I'm not the small minded reactionary as many of this country's lawmakers appear to be, as well as a select few of posters on INGO. Unfortunately, too many people refuse to open their mind to anything beyond their own little world. As such, their unexamined life probably isn't worth living.

Of course, for the purpose of balance, the life too closely examined may not be lived at all.

Socrates would be proud.

 

[garlic_b]

At least they're not protesting like this...yet.

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[SavageEagle]

Rambone, I understand your feelings on the issue. I feel the same way. But are we just to allow criminals, illegal aliens, to protest to have our laws changed? The prisoner analogy isn't so different. Both are criminals. Both would be free on the streets. I'm sure there would be innocent citizens in with the prisoners too, however misguided they are. However, it's not infringing on their rights if innocent citizens are rallied with illegal aliens. It's called harboring a fugitive and whatever the legalese is for consorting with a criminal. Something like being an accessory, but not exactly. If you house illegal aliens, you are harboring a fugitive. If you run with criminals, you are an accessory. Or whatever that is.

So therefore, asking to see their ID/proof of legal status would NOT be infringing on their rights because they would all be SUSPECTED criminals because they are rallying with criminals.

 

[nova512]

so let me ask this to you bleeding hearts out there do you think you would see the same treatment from another country if you were there illegally?would you go live in a country where you couldnt speak there lingo do you think they would change if a bunch of us went somewhere else ? they would not even blink before they would do what most of us want our country to do.

 

[SavageEagle]

so let me ask this to you bleeding hearts out there do you think you would see the same treatment from another country if you were there illegally?would you go live in a country where you couldnt speak there lingo do you think they would change if a bunch of us went somewhere else ? they would not even blink before they would do what most of us want our country to do.

Actually, many Countries like Japan, France, Spain, Italy, Hong Kong, and many other Countries have adopted English as their secondary language. However, we didn't ask them to, but that's not even the point. I wouldn't move to Australia and expect them to make me an instant citizen if I illegally entered their Country. I'd expect them to make me find a way home or drop my butt off in International waters. Which is what we should do.

 

[JBusch8899]

so let me ask this to you bleeding hearts out there do you think you would see the same treatment from another country if you were there illegally?would you go live in a country where you couldnt speak there lingo do you think they would change if a bunch of us went somewhere else ? they would not even blink before they would do what most of us want our country to do.

I hardly consider myself a bleeding heart, but I'll take a stab (no pun intended) at your question.

I don't believe that there are many countries with the same respect for human rights, as the United States possesses. Given that statement, yes, other countries with a "less developed" sense for such, would assure that we would be punished in such a manner, that wouldn't be acceptable, nor tolorated here.

However, people do have rights, regardless of their criminality or status, or whatever. The constitution guarantees these rights. How we as a country respond to criminals, illegal aliens, etc.; will be viewed by not only our posterity, but by God himself.

I'm not advocating that this country, or this government, put out the welcome mat for individuals who don't care to emigrate in the prescribed manner. What I do advocate, is that anyone be treated in a manner that reflect this country's culture and values, that is: Without cruel or unusual punishment, due process, and the like that we expect to enjoy.

If we as a country, don't insist upon this, it will become easier to mistreat the least of us. As such, our children may become next.