Why all of the 1911 hatred lately?

[churchmouse]

I'll buy that. The question is, how many out of the box 1911's will pass?

Everyone one I have ever owned save the 2 Thompson Auto Ordinance POS I knew better than to buy but did any way.
I have the 1911 my uncle carried through his entire career and it "Never" failed him. Ever. It still runs just fine thank you very much.
I get a burr in my butt over all this dependability crap. They "All" will have an issue at some point if you beat them hard enough.

 

[VERT]

I absolutely agree with everything BillT, Pincus and Yeager are saying. Honestly I do. Still going to carry my 1911.

I would not and do not recommend 1911s with barrels less then 4". In general I do not recommend any gun with a barrel less then 4" (Well maybe 3.5"). Only sub 4" gun I own is a Smith 642 revolver.

Yeah the don't know what to think about not swiping a safety off as a malfunction. I was in a training class once with a guy who happened to be a Tactical Response Instructor. He was ribbing me about my 1911. Last day of class his Glock 19 malfunctioned because his high thumb grip rode the side of the slide to hard (or at least that is what he determined and I have no reason to doubt him). Not a gun issue but a user issue. Oh, my 1911 did puke once. Even the guy coaching me commented that the round sounded light, so ammo issue not the gun. Anyway back on issue. If somebody is in a class to learn and be challenged then it only stands to reason they might forget to take the safety off. If they or that dialed in maybe they are in the wrong class or the instructor has the wrong expectation.

I have 1911s that frequently fail the lock the slide back on empty. It is a magazine issue. Does that meet the definition of a failure? Afterall the gun did fire till empty.

Side comment on grip safeties. I have never had a problem with the ones on my guns. They all have speed bumps and high beavertails. I have seen more then one Springfield XD fail to go bang because of the grip safety.

 

[9mmfan]

Not many 1911's in the $500 range will be as reliable as Glock or M & P's.
I've almost bought several 1911's over the years but the price of a good quality one put me off. I've bought 2 Glocks, 4 holsters and several hand fulls of magazines for the price of a good 1911. For me it's not worth it.
Others may disagree and that's fine. Just find something you like and shoot well and stick with it.

 

[aaron580]

FBI agents that want a 45 carry a Springfield Professional….its a 1911…I like my glocks, but love my 1911's...

 

[88E30M50]

I'll buy that. The question is, how many out of the box 1911's will pass?

My experience has been that most will. I have enjoyed tweaking my 1911s but it's rarely for reliability reasons and more to just make them fit what I want more. Both of my Sigs have been good to go and are completely stock. Both of my Kimbers have been absolutely reliable with the only mods being grips and sights. My Colt DE had accuracy issues that a custom bushing cured, but the accuracy as delivered was still acceptable for most. My Remington R1S had me chasing issues that ended up being ammo related and would easily pass that test today. Heck, even my RIA would probably pass that test. Maybe I've been lucky.

Come to think of it, I don't recall a single gun that was not capable of passing that test once any issues they had were fixed. The guns that did have an out of the box issue were a Walther PPK, Glock 19 and Glock 29 but all were reliable once broken in. The 29 might be an exception to that since it never would drop mags free but I'm used to that with CZs and don't find it to be an issue. The initial trigger reset issue the G29 had did disappear within 50 rounds.

I would not and do not recommend 1911s with barrels less then 4". In general I do not recommend any gun with a barrel less then 4" (Well maybe 3.5"). Only sub 4" gun I own is a Smith 642 revolver.

Yeah the don't know what to think about not swiping a safety off as a malfunction. I was in a training class once with a guy who happened to be a Tactical Response Instructor. He was ribbing me about my 1911. Last day of class his Glock 19 malfunctioned because his high thumb grip rode the side of the slide to hard (or at least that is what he determined and I have no reason to doubt him). Not a gun issue but a user issue. Oh, my 1911 did puke once. Even the guy coaching me commented that the round sounded light, so ammo issue not the gun. Anyway back on issue. If somebody is in a class to learn and be challenged then it only stands to reason they might forget to take the safety off. If they or that dialed in maybe they are in the wrong class or the instructor has the wrong expectation.

I have 1911s that frequently fail the lock the slide back on empty. It is a magazine issue. Does that meet the definition of a failure? Afterall the gun did fire till empty.

Side comment on grip safeties. I have never had a problem with the ones on my guns. They all have speed bumps and high beavertails. I have seen more then one Springfield XD fail to go bang because of the grip safety.

I will admit to having misgivings about the short (less than 4") 1911s. I had a Kimber Ultra that was flawless in function but I don't know if I'd use one as my primary carry gun. I think they work fine when all is well, but that short slide and short cycle narrows the window of proper operation significantly. I think they can be more sensitive to worn springs, mags and bad ammo than a larger 1911 is. Then again, that might not hold to just 1911s, but could be other ultra small guns as well.

 

[nakinate]

Well Jesus H. Christ, go ahead and flog me with a stick!

Reported for religious discussion!

 

[Magneto]

I had a Taurus PT1911. Loved it. Regret that I had to sell it to this day. My biggest issue with 1911's is that it is hard for a lefty to find ambidextrous safeties on many models. That would be the biggest drawback when I look to purchase another 1911 some day.

 

[churchmouse]

I had a Taurus PT1911. Loved it. Regret that I had to sell it to this day. My biggest issue with 1911's is that it is hard for a lefty to find ambidextrous safeties on many models. That would be the biggest drawback when I look to purchase another 1911 some day.

Easy peasy to install ambidextrous safety.

 

[VERT]

Not many 1911's in the $500 range will be as reliable as Glock or M & P's.
I've almost bought several 1911's over the years but the price of a good quality one put me off. I've bought 2 Glocks, 4 holsters and several hand fulls of magazines for the price of a good 1911. For me it's not worth it.
Others may disagree and that's fine. Just find something you like and shoot well and stick with it.

I can not think of any $500 1911 that I would want to own or try to convince myself is as reliable as a Glock or M&P. I have been keeping an eye on the Ruger SR1911 and Springfield RO. Both of those are in the $650+ range and even then may need a little attention. Overall I have been very pleased with the SW1911s from Smith & Wesson. There is a lot of external extractor hate out there but I think Smith basically got their design right. I know this comment will be seen as snobbish and I honestly don't mean it as such: If a person is going to step into the self defense 1911 market I would plan to pony up $1200 or so. A decent quality gun, a little gunsmithing and some good quality mags are going to cost at least that much. Hard to justify that cost for a gun that is heavier, needs a bit more attention, carries less ammo. Plus .45 costs more then 9mm to boot.

Oh yeah, this is what I have started carrying. So far so good. I plan to run it in Tom Givens Advanced Pistol Course in 2 weeks. Hoping my hand can take 400 - 600 rounds out of a 29 oz gun.

Before BillT cites Yeager again this gun has a few flaws. I think the slide cuts are "sporty" and they do lighten the gun a bit, but they are also a great place to collect dirt. Also the Novak sights (not tritium by the way, big fail) and full length guide rod do not leave me with a good way to run the slide with one hand. Obviously I do not consider this to be a deal breaker. Although I am a little miffed about the lack of night sights.

 

[sharkey]

Why all of the any of this crap lately?

Glock and 1911 are BOTH overrated. There are many fabulous platforms out there now that have a lot to offer.

A pistol has currently been offered now for years, and selling for $430, that has a match grade barrel, world class trigger, and survived ONE MILLION rounds of test fire as a factory prototype... The previous importer had to stop offering it because the sales were so slow.

Stop being such xenophobes, and try something new.

Jennings or Kel-tec?

 

[billt]

My only issue with what you've been posting is the idea that the 1911 cannot be trusted.

Based on the observation of several experienced trainers over thousands of students, and millions of rounds over many years....It can't. At least not anywhere near as well as what's currently available out there. These guys aren't lying about all of these failures and malfunctions they're seeing every day in their classes.

 

[billt]

I get a burr in my butt over all this dependability crap. They "All" will have an issue at some point if you beat them hard enough.

No one is talking about "beating them". These people are saying they can't get one to make it through a shooting class. No mud and sand. Do you think they're lying?

 

[churchmouse]

I can not think of any $500 1911 that I would want to own or try to convince myself is as reliable as a Glock or M&P. I have been keeping an eye on the Ruger SR1911 and Springfield RO. Both of those are in the $650+ range and even then may need a little attention. Overall I have been very pleased with the SW1911s from Smith & Wesson. There is a lot of external extractor hate out there but I think Smith basically got their design right. I know this comment will be seen as snobbish and I honestly don't mean it as such: If a person is going to step into the self defense 1911 market I would plan to pony up $1200 or so. A decent quality gun, a little gunsmithing and some good quality mags are going to cost at least that much. Hard to justify that cost for a gun that is heavier, needs a bit more attention, carries less ammo. Plus .45 costs more then 9mm to boot.

Oh yeah, this is what I have started carrying. So far so good. I plan to run it in Tom Givens Advanced Pistol Course in 2 weeks. Hoping my hand can take 400 - 600 rounds out of a 29 oz gun.

Before BillT cites Yeager again this gun has a few flaws. I think the slide cuts are "sporty" and they do lighten the gun a bit, but they are also a great place to collect dirt. Also the Novak sights (not tritium by the way, big fail) and full length guide rod do not leave me with a good way to run the slide with one hand. Obviously I do not consider this to be a deal breaker. Although I am a little miffed about the lack of night sights.

HHhhhmmmmm.....I recognize that gun.

 

[aaron580]

No one is talking about "beating them". These people are saying they can't get one to make it through a shooting class. No mud and sand. Do you think they're lying?

My glock 20 had 8 FTF the last time I was at atterbury… My TRP and 0 and has always had 0 FTF… my RO has had 0 FTF that was not my crappy reloads which also FTF my G19 as well...

 

[aaron580]

HHhhhmmmmm.....I recognize that gun.

Me to…I need one after fondling it

 

[churchmouse]

No one is talking about "beating them". These people are saying they can't get one to make it through a shooting class. No mud and sand. Do you think they're lying?

Hard to say. I was not there. Mine always make it through so that is the basis for my opinion. I have worked on/modified/prettied up more 1911's than I can remember. Yup, couple had some issues. Not always the gun. We have ran 1911's forever. My son and myself and more than a few friends. We run them. That is what I call beating on them. We run them and run them very hard. Had a Para launch the spring plug down range one day. Common failure for a Para P-12. Never found it. That was after 12K (est) rounds. Modified a Wilson plug and that gun is still running. We did put a sear and hammer in it. MIM parts have limits.
I have seen Glocks fail. They are all just machines. Man made machines. You can push this failure thing as far as you like. My guns run.

 

[VERT]

No one is talking about "beating them". These people are saying they can't get one to make it through a shooting class. No mud and sand. Do you think they're lying?

If it is a Tactical Response course my understanding is that they want you to draw your gun and then drop it. I can actually appreciate the logic, gun is a tool, a person might have to actually drop the gun, etc. I can say with certainty that both of my current carry 1911s would not be able to shrug off the TN red clay down there. Now the reality of the situation is that I have no compelling reason to drop my gun in the mud and then fire 600 - 1000 rounds. My guess is the 1911 magazines would not last long being dropped in dirt either. I suppose when I am running from the zombies I will worry about this issue.

Pincus was referring to sub compact 1911s and I would agree the 3" Kimber he showed is crap.

 

[billt]

Pincus was referring to sub compact 1911s and I would agree the 3" Kimber he showed is crap.

In the scroll at the end of the video it was mentioned full sized models have a 90% failure rate in his classes. That's ridiculous.

 

[churchmouse]

In the scroll at the end of the video it was mentioned full sized models have a 90% failure rate in his classes. That's ridiculous.

Yes....I am sure he is lying.

 

[roadrunner681]

If it is a Tactical Response course my understanding is that they want you to draw your gun and then drop it. I can actually appreciate the logic, gun is a tool, a person might have to actually drop the gun, etc. I can say with certainty that both of my current carry 1911s would not be able to shrug off the TN red clay down there. Now the reality of the situation is that I have no compelling reason to drop my gun in the mud and then fire 600 - 1000 rounds. My guess is the 1911 magazines would not last long being dropped in dirt either. I suppose when I am running from the zombies I will worry about this issue.

Pincus was referring to sub compact 1911s and I would agree the 3" Kimber he showed is crap.

in my experince 1911s must have good magazines, my grandfather has carries one every day and has since he was issued one in korea, he said the 1911 can take dirt but the mags need protected if your in really nasty stuff there just springs in a slot they dont have a lot of room for junk in there.