Who says we have to let welfare trash vote?

[IndyDave1776]

You'd be surprised to know that the concept of "limited govt" has only ever existed, in America, in paper.... Most certainly never in practice. I'm rapidly coming to the belief that many of the founders were with hypocrites or simply wrote down things to make people happy, without ever having any intention of seeing put to good use.

No. I would not be surprised in the least to discover that overreach was not invented by Franklin Roosevelt. You will also notice that the overreaches were much smaller, closer to the limits, and largely not tolerated indefinitely, with the exception of the Louisiana Purchase. By contrast, the Sedition Act didn't fare so well. In raising the point that it never functioned perfectly, you have signally failed to account for the fact that overreaches in terms of both number and severity have appeared within the last 80 years.

Given what you just said about the Constitution you swore to uphold and about limited government, can you understand why in the event of going full police state I wouldn't take any cash bets on finding you on the right side?

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

You'd be surprised to know that the concept of "limited govt" has only ever existed, in America, in paper.... Most certainly never in practice. I'm rapidly coming to the belief that many of the founders were with hypocrites or simply wrote down things to make people happy, without ever having any intention of seeing put to good use.

Like all of us, they were human...imperfect, sinful, hypocritical, greedy, fat, bald, drank-to-much, bad-breathed humans. That doesn't mean the idea they created, on paper, should be disregarded because of their actions or habits.

 

[steveh_131]

I prefer "compassionate human " but call it what you want

Hate to say it, but he's right.

You are defending a system that takes from one person by force and gives it to a person it deems to be 'in need'. I am not certain how you call that anything but theft.

As I've pointed out, I blame the politicians and those who voted for them for this theft, not the recipients of those funds, so I want that to be clear. Nevertheless, this system inevitably declines into communism and is absolutely unsustainable (and our nation is the proof of it).

A truly "compassionate human" takes from their own resources and gives to those in need. A "compassionate human" does not take someone else's resources and give them those in need.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Hate to say it, but he's right.

You are defending a system that takes from one person by force and gives it to a person it deems to be 'in need'. I am not certain how you call that anything but theft.

As I've pointed out, I blame the politicians and those who voted for them for this theft, not the recipients of those funds, so I want that to be clear. Nevertheless, this system inevitably declines into communism and is absolutely unsustainable (and our nation is the proof of it).

A truly "compassionate human" takes from their own resources and gives to those in need. A "compassionate human" does not take someone else's resources and give them those in need.

This is how we get those, like the Occupy Wallstreet folks, that demand more and more from whom they consider "rich" or "not paying their fair share'. There are not enough rich from whom enough wealth can be taken to fully compensate all the needs and misery people consider to be in need of recompense or reparation.

 

[Shelly1582]

This is how we get those, like the Occupy Wallstreet folks, that demand more and more from whom they consider "rich" or "not paying their fair share'. There are not enough rich from whom enough wealth can be taken to fully compensate all the needs and misery people consider to be in need recompense or reparation.

Just woke up, didn't realize you guys would be so quick to pick apart my late night response to a grown man resorting to name calling. Maybe compassion was the wrong word, maybe an ability to feel empathy works best. The fact that you guys find nothing wrong with the way he passed judgement on the previous poster I spoke of shows me how far that ability reaches in some of you. Gonna finish my coffee now, but like I said we pay taxes on everything. That's just the way it is, they don't ask our preference. This hasn't been about voting for a few pages now.

BTW: The IRS never held a gun to our heads, not even as part of the audit process.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Just woke up, didn't realize you guys would be so quick to pick apart my late night response to a grown man resorting to name calling. Maybe compassion was the wrong word, maybe an ability to feel empathy works best. The fact that you guys find nothing wrong with the way he passed judgement on the previous poster I spoke of shows me how far that ability reaches in some of you. Gonna finish my coffee now, but like I said we pay taxes on everything. That's just the way it is, they don't ask our preference. This hasn't been about voting for a few pages now.

BTW: The IRS never held a gun to our heads, not even as part of the audit process.

Shelly, I really not trying to "attack" you or anything, but your comments demonstrate how well indoctrinated and conditioned to the wealth re-distribution concept foisted on us by the 20th century progressives you are. You're not alone, even among other pro-2A, pro-constitution members on this forum. All we've ever none, in fact depending on your age, all of our parents and grandparents, have ever known is the benevolent government coming to our aid with checks and programs. What we've all forgotten or never knew, is that all that money is forcibly taken from our neighbors and friends--and that charity is not a power delegated to the federal government by the constitution.

If you think you've never had a gun, rhetorical or physical, held against your head by the IRS, see what happens if you refuse to pay your fair share.

 

[steveh_131]

Just woke up, didn't realize you guys would be so quick to pick apart my late night response to a grown man resorting to name calling. Maybe compassion was the wrong word, maybe an ability to feel empathy works best. The fact that you guys find nothing wrong with the way he passed judgement on the previous poster I spoke of shows me how far that ability reaches in some of you. Gonna finish my coffee now, but like I said we pay taxes on everything. That's just the way it is, they don't ask our preference. This hasn't been about voting for a few pages now.

I can certainly empathize with SD on the subject, and I imagine Prometheus can as well. He could have been more tactful in his response, but the concepts were spot on.

BTW: The IRS never held a gun to our heads, not even as part of the audit process.

Try refusing to pay taxes and refusing to go to jail for it. The guns will come out.

 

[EvilBlackGun]

Only 15 posts and he GETS it!@!!

I'm all for that. THESE BUSES PICKING UP "VOTERS" and providing box-lunches, et al, are nothing more than a da,mn-ocrat bribery set-up. Bible principle: no workee, no eatie, no votie. Works for me. But my kind are already out-voted. Time for Liberty's tree to be nourished. i'm NOT out-gunned YET! Let's wait and see what happens when UAW AFL etc. discover that THEY will INDEED be paying the same medical bills as the rest of us, despite prØmises from the exalted Øne. "yournamehere" is in GOOD company!@!@

Seriously.

The 1st, 15th, 19th and 26th amendments deal with voting issues. IF Im not totally wrong the felons issue its a states rights issue and the 14th amendment possibly.

In my world anyone who uses or lives in section 8 housing, EBT card, WIC, or any other welfare device. Anyone who is on SS and has not reached retirement age. These people forfit their right to vote since they contribute nothing to the greater good of the nation.

 

[EvilBlackGun]

Not "IRS" guns, but other enforcement goons ...

... against feral hog-managers and private, non-approved by BOARDS milk-producers in Michigan, non-subsidized grain-farmers in Texas -- all uprooted or even gunned down while producing their livestock, cheese, threshing their harvest, IIRC. Just LEAVE US THE 4UCK ALONE, or take the buckshot. (My interpretation of Patriot-to-Redcoat discussion.) Shelly, choose your words as carefully as Jefferson and Adams did,, and be prepared to get hung by the neck. Read THEIR words; and try to get outside a bit more.

Just woke up, didn't realize you guys would be so quick to pick apart my late night response to a grown man resorting to name calling. Maybe compassion was the wrong word, maybe <snip> empathy works best.

BTW: The IRS never held a gun to our heads, not even as part of the audit process.

 

[Shelly1582]

You guys will never be convinced that an opinion differing from yours is anything but repressing you and your freedoms. My only reason for posting in this thread was a need to respond to the asinine way a good man was treated. Until you walk in his shoes it is best to not cast judgement. Especially if you consider yourselves good Christian men. And now is where you reply that since you are financing his life, with the 50 dollars a month he might get from in EBT, he should expect to be in indebted to you and open to your judgement. Yeah, we get it. Better get ready for my daughters basketball game. I'll read about how I'm a uninformed socialist thief later. Atleast we all have one thing in common, you guys just didn't buy your guns on EBT food stamps like me .

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

...I'm a uninformed socialist thief....

Well, you know what they say: "Acceptance is the first step to recovery".

 

[steveh_131]

You guys will never be convinced that an opinion differing from yours is anything but repressing you and your freedoms. My only reason for posting in this thread was a need to respond to the asinine way a good man was treated. Until you walk in his shoes it is best to not cast judgement. Especially if you consider yourselves good Christian men. And now is where you reply that since you are financing his life, with the 50 dollars a month he might get from in EBT, he should expect to be in indebted to you and open to your judgement. Yeah, we get it. Better get ready for my daughters basketball game. I'll read about how I'm a uninformed socialist thief later. Atleast we all have one thing in common, you guys just didn't buy your guns on EBT food stamps like me .

I've been clear that I do not condemn someone for playing the game and taking what the system has to offer. We all have to live under it and live under the same rules, so we might as well play to win, right? I take no issue with SD. I don't think he is a thief, nor do I think that you are a thief.

I think that by confusing government handouts with 'compassion' is a very dangerous mistake, however. And I think that people who vote for money to be taken from one person and given to the 'needy' are, in fact, stealing. They want their conscience eased, but don't want to sacrifice anything of their own to accomplish that. So they think that by voting for wealth redistribution, they can call themselves 'compassionate'. They are wrong.

 

[GREEN607]

Yeah, I never saw in her posts that Shelley was claimed to be taking warm showers with the likes of Barney Frank, or eagerly standing in line to worship at the alter of "the Annointed Kenyan".

She simply called out SOME here for judging a man who is doing the right thing for his family, and who (I have no doubt) a defender of the 2A like MOST of us in INGO.

If you go back and read my first post in this thread..... you'll see I am adament about getting my SS benefits when I am eligible (which will be very soon, if I survive till then). STOP referring to that as "stealing from you who are in the next generation"! If the SS system remains intact until the time you are eligible, and you had to have that money "borrowed" (polite term) from your salary all your life.... I want to see which of you here will say, "Oh no Uncle Sam. Just keep all that cash you stole from me for years, and I'll eat ramon noodles the rest of my life." Right, like that will happen....

 

[hornadylnl]

Unless it's a public shooting range. Then it's not theft to use government to force others to pay for my ability to shoot.

 

[steveh_131]

"Oh no Uncle Sam. Just keep all that cash you stole from me for years, and I'll eat ramon noodles the rest of my life."

Here's the root of the problem. You think 'Uncle Sam' has money. 'He' doesn't. Your money is gone. It has been wasted. It's been gone for a long time. The people who took it are not the ones who will be paying you back.

You need to accept that your money was stolen from you, and that your demands to have it repaid will result in money being stolen from someone else in order to repay you.

I'd still claim it, if I were you. That's not my point. But I am under no illusions of where it comes from, and my vote will reflect my condemnation of this entire system.

 

[Darral27]

It seem's that this is like the rest of the political process. A battle between those who pay taxes and those who take part of what we pay. Some say the gov't must take money or charitable people simply would not do the right thing. That is absurd. How was done before all these welfare programs were put into place?

Do you ever wonder how much that lady asking you questions to get you your benefits is making? What about the hundreds of others that do the same job? How about the thousands that are answering phones at the medicaid office? How about all those nice people at the Social Security office? How about those thousands of nice people with the IRS?

Anything the gov't does is not to help you or anybody else. It is done to gain control. That money could be much better handled in the hands of charitable organizations. I read somewhere (cannot find the article right now) that the gov't spends something like 60,000 per year, per family on welfare. What could that money do in the hands of the private sector? If somebody needs help family and community should provide that help. It should not be the fed's. There needs to be shame in asking for help. That is what give's people motivation to take themselves out of the hole they are in.

 

[GREEN607]

Here's the root of the problem. You think 'Uncle Sam' has money. 'He' doesn't. Your money is gone. It has been wasted. It's been gone for a long time. The people who took it are not the ones who will be paying you back.

You need to accept that your money was stolen from you, and that your demands to have it repaid will result in money being stolen from someone else in order to repay you.

I'd still claim it, if I were you. That's not my point. But I am under no illusions of where it comes from, and my vote will reflect my condemnation of this entire system.

You know what, pal!?

SCREW THAT! Let Uncle Sam borrow it from China..... like they do for their pensions.

I have worked all my life. I have ALREADY paid for likely half a dozen 'free-loaders' in the system. I WILL get my SS cash, when the time comes.

ETA: I (believe I) spent and invested wisely, for the most part. My wife and I owe NO major debts; our vehicles are 'paid off' (paid CASH for the last one). I think we are paying off a balance of $1220 owed the heart doctors from my third heart attack. But wifey and I owe no one else..... and we cut up our credit cards 7 years ago, come April.

 

[steveh_131]

You know what, pal!?

SCREW THAT! Let Uncle Sam borrow it from China..... like they do for their pensions.

I agree with the sentiment. It just doesn't work that way, unfortunately.

 

[Sfrandolph]

The founders were clear that the Republic would last so long as the people didn't realize they could vote themselves money.

I personally think anyone getting a check from government shouldn't be able to vote while they are collecting that check. It's a blatant conflict of interest.

It would also be a great step in weaning people off the government teat and back into the private sector.

You opt onto the public dole (in any capacity) you place yourself in a position of servitude.

SS is going to bankrupt the nation, the old are stealing the young blind. Sure they "paid in" to something when they were young, but that money is gone. Long gone. The only way to pay grandpa is to steal it from the grandson.

Same goes for welfare, theft is theft.

As to those of us who are or were public servants, be it police, fire or military, dog catcher, mayor, governor, mailman... sorry but no vote for you either. We're on the public dole? No vote. Come off the dole, back to the polls you can go.

If you take money from the citizens, you shouldn't be allowed to vote. Honestly, if we want to even have a shot at saving America, it has to be done. I don't see any way in cherry picking what type of check being handed out gets what.

People don't like to admit it but SS is an entitlement program and in the eyes of the USSC is the same thing as what many consider "welfare". Under the law, there is no difference between them.

Wow. Not sure that you are on the right track here. Yes, you are correct that those on SS are in effect stealing from the grandchildren. But you have missed the target. The politicians (BOTH PARTIES) raided the SS fund decades ago. So the ones that in actuality did the stealing was the politicians and their parties. Not the poor working stiffs that were FORCED to pay into the system. As someone on the verge of getting SS due to age, I would not have any problem if the govt would just give me back what I paid in over the past four decades. Or give me a lifetime income tax credit for that same amount. Either way in my opinion, its a push.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Wow. Not sure that you are on the right track here. Yes, you are correct that those on SS are in effect stealing from the grandchildren. But you have missed the target. The politicians (BOTH PARTIES) raided the SS fund decades ago. So the ones that in actuality did the stealing was the politicians and their parties. Not the poor working stiffs that were FORCED to pay into the system. As someone on the verge of getting SS due to age, I would not have any problem if the govt would just give me back what I paid in over the past four decades. Or give me a lifetime income tax credit for that same amount. Either way in my opinion, its a push.

I disagree. Those people got there because all of us working stiffs voted for them and we rewarded them by re-electing them.