Who owns a .380, and why?

[Colt556]

I find a good load that my gun likes and stick to that load for that gun. I practice "Double taps" with any gun I carry. By mixing ammunition types and makers it just seems as if there is more likely hood of a jam, malfuntion and various points of impact. Find a load that works well and shoots to point of aim and stick to it, IMHO.

 

[DIRTY HARRY]

Ditto, the easy way to be armed and go un noticed.

If you put something like a Hornady Critical Defense round or Glaser Safety Slugs you can increase your .380's stopping power greatly!

 

[Agent 007]

If you put something like a Hornady Critical Defense round or Glaser Safety Slugs you can increase your .380's stopping power greatly!

Hornaday Critical Defense ammo is getting good reviews. Glasers are nothing but expensive gimmick rounds, they do not offer enough penetration to reliably stop an attacker, and should not be relied upon as self defense ammo...ESPECIALLY in the weak .380 round. Go with a good JHP or FMJ, and stay away from Glasers. Penetration is the key to stopping someone.

By the way, there is no such thing as quantifiable "stopping power," especially from a handgun round.

 

[Roadie]

Thanks for the advice. I had wondered if alternating ammo could cause feed issues as well.

I think I will just stick to JHP in my defense mag.

 

[gglass]

I will start out with the phrase "carry what you want". Having said that, I must take exception to people telling other people to jump on the Hornady Critical Defense bandwagon, and backing up their recommendation with only hearsay and unfounded facts.

I would love to love Hornady's Critical Defense ammunition and have been waiting on some independent testing to show how it compares to the rest of the premium self defense loads available... I am still waiting. I consider myself a Google-junkie and an information addict, especially when it comes to firearms. I have yet to see anything more than an incomplete article that was published when Critical Defense was released, and Hornady's own marketing video to tell me how the new ammunition performs. If I am missing some major comparison between Critical Defense and other ammunition brands, I and others would love to see it. Other than the two afore mentioned sources, the only source for high praise on this ammo is from forum people talking to forum people about hearsay.

If anyone can back up these statements, it would certainly put my mind at ease if I ever decide to carry it:

Hornaday Critical Defense ammo is getting good reviews.

What reviews?

If you put something like a Hornady Critical Defense round or Glaser Safety Slugs you can increase your .380's stopping power greatly!

How did you come to this conclusion?

I will end by saying once again "carry what you want". But, I will also say "recommend to others what you KNOW".

 

[CSK22]

No ammo arguing !

 

[Agent 007]

I will start out with the phrase "carry what you want". Having said that, I must take exception to people telling other people to jump on the Hornady Critical Defense bandwagon, and backing up their recommendation with only hearsay and unfounded facts.

I would love to love Hornady's Critical Defense ammunition and have been waiting on some independent testing to show how it compares to the rest of the premium self defense loads available... I am still waiting. I consider myself a Google-junkie and an information addict, especially when it comes to firearms. I have yet to see anything more than an incomplete article that was published when Critical Defense was released, and Hornady's own marketing video to tell me how the new ammunition performs. If I am missing some major comparison between Critical Defense and other ammunition brands, I and others would love to see it. Other than the two afore mentioned sources, the only source for high praise on this ammo is from forum people talking to forum people about hearsay.

If anyone can back up these statements, it would certainly put my mind at ease if I ever decide to carry it.

What reviews?

I will end by saying once again "carry what you want". But, I will also say "recommend to others what you KNOW".

Well, I guess this guy could be lying, but he seems to have actually bought Hornaday Critical Defense ammo in .380 and .38 and tested it for velocity and penetration/expansion in soaked newsprint.

hi-powers--handguns: Informal Tests: Hornady Critical Defense .380 & .38 Special

Guns & Ammo reviewed the ammo:

Critical Defense

Handguns Magazine did velocity and gelatin testing:

A Critical Choice

I don't know exactly what you are looking for. It's a .380, there's only so much it can do, unless somebody invents super magic stopping power fairy dust to sprinkle on the bullets before they leave the factory. According to the reviews I found, the new bullet goes about 9 or 10 inches in gelatin and expands reliably. That's about all you can ask for out of a .380, especially one of the pocket guns vs. a Bersa or PPK. It seems to be reliable, given the lack of an open hollowpoint. If you think you need more penetration, use ball or hard cast flat points from Buffalo Bore, or step up to a bigger caliber. I doubt there's a huge difference between the least effective JHP and the most effective in this marginal caliber.

Don't overthink it. A .380 is a .380. It will never reach the effectiveness of a good .38 or 9mm. It may be good enough for a face to face encounter, if you get decent shot placement. But a 90-100 grain bullet at less than 1000 fps is never going to be the Hammer of Thor. The velocity and the bullet weight/sectional density just isn't there, no matter what kind of whiz-bang ammo the manufacturers come out with. If you carry a P3AT or an LCP as a primary weapon, you've already made the decision that bullet effectiveness is less important than your convenience in carrying a gun. Live with your decision.

 

[Roadie]

Wow, some serious .380 hate on here eh? lol

As I have said before, personally I bought the Bersa because:

A: I have small hands
B: I am poor
C: The Bersa was the only handgun that let me take 1 and 2 into consideration AND had reliability.

I am a n00b, but I realize that it does not have the stopping power of a .38, 9mm, .40, .45 etc, BUT it has more stopping power than no handgun at all. Some people might say "wait until you save more $$ and buy a 9mm (.40 .45, whatever)", well OK, and if something happens to my family between now and then? How am I going to feel knowing that I COULD have had a weapon to protect them, but I was waiting for MORE firepower? With the .380 I have a pretty good chance at protecting them.

I apologize if I sound defensive, but I have already had people elsewhere say things like "what did you by a toy gun for, ha ha" etc.

Personally, I think I made a pretty good choice for my first handgun.

 

[Agent 007]

Wow, some serious .380 hate on here eh? lol

As I have said before, personally I bought the Bersa because:

A: I have small hands
B: I am poor
C: The Bersa was the only handgun that let me take 1 and 2 into consideration AND had reliability.

I am a n00b, but I realize that it does not have the stopping power of a .38, 9mm, .40, .45 etc, BUT it has more stopping power than no handgun at all. Some people might say "wait until you save more $$ and buy a 9mm (.40 .45, whatever)", well OK, and if something happens to my family between now and then? How am I going to feel knowing that I COULD have had a weapon to protect them, but I was waiting for MORE firepower? With the .380 I have a pretty good chance at protecting them.

I apologize if I sound defensive, but I have already had people elsewhere say things like "what did you by a toy gun for, ha ha" etc.

Personally, I think I made a pretty good choice for my first handgun.

No hate, just a realistic look at the limitations of the caliber...particularly from the little P3AT/LCP pistols. Sure, they carry easy, but they are hard to shoot well. Shot placement is key with .380, and hitting someone who may not stand still for you is made even more difficult by the use of a 2 finger grip tiny pistol with a stiff DA trigger pull and non-existent sights.

Your Bersa is actually a great choice for a first pistol, as it has the necessary barrel length to get the velocity of the .380 up to where it should be for greatest effectiveness, and is a fixed barrel design, which should be very reliable. I used to own a Bersa, nice little shooter, and easy to hit with. The accuracy actually surprised me, and it has good capacity and a good DA/SA trigger. If you're going to carry a .380 as a primary, you can't do much better than the Bersa, even at twice the cost IMHO. Even though they are .380 caliber, I don't even compare the Bersa/PPK/Sig 232 to the little LCP/P3AT pistols. Different class altogether, with regards to shootability and ease of use in a lethal force encounter.

I like the little LCP as a backup gun, but a lot of people carry them as primaries. I think the pocket pistols encourage people to forget why they carry a pistol in the first place, as they are so convenient to drop in a pocket and forget. If you KNEW that you were going to have a gunfight 5 minutes from now, and you could choose to take an LCP/P3AT or a compact/fullsize 9mm, 40 or 45 (or even a good .357 snubby), which would you choose? That's the whole point in carrying a gun for defense.

I have a feeling that when people say "nothing else but an LCP/P3AT will work for me," they are really saying "I need a gun that I won't get caught with at work," or some other place where they aren't supposed to have a gun. Most people can carry a more effective sidearm that is more appropriate for the actual role of defending your life with, if they make a little effort.

 

[cce1302]

I apologize if I sound defensive, but I have already had people elsewhere say things like "what did you by a toy gun for, ha ha" etc.

Personally, I think I made a pretty good choice for my first handgun.

Don't let morons make you doubt your choice. You did fine.

 

[dburkhead]

I got a .380 because I just love not being able to find ammunition, having all local and online vendors being perpetually out of stock.

Okay, actually, I got my P3AT because it's small and very easy to conceal. It fits situations where I have to conceal (places where there are "no firearms" signs posted* or places where I don't want to risk being asked to leave for showing a gun) but am not wearing enough, or the right, clothes to conceal my 1911. I also have it as a backup to

I operate on the principle that the .380 you have with you is better than the .45 you left at home (or in the car).

* This does not apply, of course, to places where such signs have force of law--city, state, and federal property, schools and daycares, and the like. Of course I would never carry where it's actually illegal.

 

[Roadie]

Thanks for your replies, I appreciate the comments.

 

[indyjoe]

No hate, just a realistic look at the limitations of the caliber...particularly from the little P3AT/LCP pistols. Sure, they carry easy, but they are hard to shoot well. Shot placement is key with .380, and hitting someone who may not stand still for you is made even more difficult by the use of a 2 finger grip tiny pistol with a stiff DA trigger pull and non-existent sights.

Actually, the sights exist. Much like sights on an old SA revolver. I can rapid fire (1 per second) the P3AT and get all round in 4 inch circle at 21 feet. I use the 1 round extension to help with this. It is hard to shoot it well. That is why I practiced with it. I shoot it well.

I like the little LCP as a backup gun, but a lot of people carry them as primaries. I think the pocket pistols encourage people to forget why they carry a pistol in the first place, as they are so convenient to drop in a pocket and forget. If you KNEW that you were going to have a gunfight 5 minutes from now, and you could choose to take an LCP/P3AT or a compact/fullsize 9mm, 40 or 45 (or even a good .357 snubby), which would you choose? That\'s the whole point in carrying a gun for defense.

I have a feeling that when people say nothing else but an LCP/P3AT will work for me they are really saying I need a gun that I won\'t get caught with at work, or some other place where they aren\'t supposed to have a gun. Most people can carry a more effective sidearm that is more appropriate for the actual role of defending your life with, if they make a little effort.

I will get fired if I was caught with a firearm. Should I not carry any? The P3AT is one of the few things that works for my situation. I can conceal a full sized firearm well. If cannot do that with the thing I am required to do at work. Period. If you knew you were going to be in a gun fight in 5 minutes and you could choose between a P3AT or a pocket knife, which would you choose?

 

[Agent 007]

If you knew you were going to be in a gun fight in 5 minutes and you could choose between a P3AT or a pocket knife, which would you choose?

How big is the blade on the knife?

A gun usually beats a knife, but not always. If your adversary is feeling no pain, and he gets in close, his knife may very well be more deadly than your P3AT. I always carry a good knife, as well as a pistol, so I'd have to say....both! No reason you can't conceal a knife in one pocket and a P3AT in the other. A knife never runs out of ammo, and someone who knows what they are doing can inflict horrible damage with a knife.

If a P3AT or LCP is all you can carry, then that's what you should carry. It would be silly to say that no one should carry a pocket pistol, as having a gun is always better than not having one. A good knife is not a bad idea as a backup weapon, though.

 

[jdpresto527]

Size, size, size... I'd much rather carry around my Glock 23, but a nice .380 (like the LCP or the Kel-Tek 3AP gives you 6+1 in your pocket.

 

[indyjoe]

How big is the blade on the knife?

A gun usually beats a knife, but not always. If your adversary is feeling no pain, and he gets in close, his knife may very well be more deadly than your P3AT. I always carry a good knife, as well as a pistol, so I'd have to say....both! No reason you can't conceal a knife in one pocket and a P3AT in the other. A knife never runs out of ammo, and someone who knows what they are doing can inflict horrible damage with a knife.

If a P3AT or LCP is all you can carry, then that's what you should carry. It would be silly to say that no one should carry a pocket pistol, as having a gun is always better than not having one. A good knife is not a bad idea as a backup weapon, though.

Yes, I don't have as big of a problem with a knife, so I have both. They are seem as less threatening with a "pocket knife" even if it is a good fighting knife.

 

[Blue River Guns]

my answer to the .380 question

I own a kel-tec p3at for one reason. It is very easy to conceal in a pocket holster and I use it as a back up to my primary side arm. The p3at is a simple and leightweight gun. I have found though that it likes good ammo not the cheap stuff. Big issue right now is finding .380 ammo.

Hope this helps!
pw

 

[nawainwright]

I would agree, I have a Bersa 380 and it continues to be one of the best CC guns I have. Its hard to hide a .45 (though possible), and while it doesn't have the same stopping power, most of the time, just showing a gun will get someone to back down.

 

[45acp]

I carry a Walther PPKS 380 and like most say it's easy to conceal it's nice and flat with an inside the belt holser. The only concern I have is that I will probably have to use all 8 rounds to knock someone down and stay down, althought I switch sometimes between my 9mm and 45.

 

[DIRTY HARRY]

Well, here is my 2 cents worth,
I have, and carry an AMT BackUp that I purchased brand new in 1982.(Satin Stainless w/5rnd mag plus one in the chute for a total of 6). It has never misfired, failed to fire or accidently discharged. I have heard some stories but this has been a great BUG and continues to serve me well.

In addition, I have found Hornady Critical Defense and Glaser Safety
Slugs, Corbon Pwr Balls to be the most reliable and best stopping power for this caliber. She doesn't like the JHP's too much.

Thanks for listening and rock on......
DH