Well, INGOCrats...looks like your pro-gun guy is kaput.

[findingZzero]

Don't look now, but there's no room for Centrists in either party.
Laws set limits so we know who is breaking them. They don't insure that there will be no law breakers.
It's a beautiful Fall day. Go look at the leaves w or w/o your gun. Yeah, I know, I don't belong here....

 

[indiucky]

Yeah, I know, I don't belong here....

I call Bull Excrement.....

Echo chambers are boring....The guys I disagree with the most and **** off the most are the reason I come to INGO....Who the hell wants to sit around in a circle with everyone nodding in agreement????

Stay Gold Pony Boy.....

PS....I think Courtney Love had Kurt Cobain murdered...No...I am sure of it....

 

[jamil]

Don't look now, but there's no room for Centrists in either party.
Laws set limits so we now who is breaking them. They don't insure that there will be no law breakers.
It's a beautiful Fall day. Go look at the leaves w or w/o your gun. Yeah, I know, I don't belong here....

You're right. Both parties have a base that loathes centrists. And because we have a two party system centrists are gonna be stuck with one or the other. And that is probably something where centrists could find some common ground with the fringes. The main stream party view is partisan. They want the two-party system. Breaking the two party system should be a priority among everyone who isn't partisan, regardless of whether they're conservative, liberal, libertarian, moderate.

 

[Bfish]

You're right. Both parties have a base that loathes centrists. And because we have a two party system centrists are gonna be stuck with one or the other. And that is probably something where centrists could find some common ground with the fringes. The main stream party view is partisan. They want the two-party system. Breaking the two party system should be a priority among everyone who isn't partisan, regardless of whether they're conservative, liberal, libertarian, moderate.

It would be nice to see this! I feel like it could really change our politics for the better too!

 

[indiucky]

Breaking the two party system should be a priority among everyone who isn't partisan, regardless of whether they're conservative, liberal, libertarian, moderate.

I don't believe the country has the stomach for what it would take to do that..... And INGO has clear rules on even discussing it.....

So what do we do???? We throw stones at each other, nit pick nuances and make up clever names in which to dismiss those whose views we do not share....The fact that Trump, Fiorina, and Carson just recently joined the Republican Party, have never held public office of any kind and are leading the polls tells me the tide MAY be turning just a bit in the right direction...

Democrats are more loyal to their candidates...Republicans (apparently) will eat their own and chase it down with a shot of Bourbon...If enough Republicans do it this time and "Yellow Dog" Democrats eventually stray off the Reservation then at some point I suppose it could happen.....

You would be fun to grill with I think....

 

[Cygnus]

I call Bull Excrement.....

Echo chambers are boring....The guys I disagree with the most and **** off the most are the reason I come to INGO....Who the hell wants to sit around in a circle with everyone nodding in agreement????

Stay Gold Pony Boy.....

PS....I think Courtney Love had Kurt Cobain murdered...No...I am sure of it....

I am with you on Courtney. I saw that BBC documentary too. Along with the dead witness from the punk band.....

I still think some of Hole songs are actually Kurt's. I call bullfeathers on the one that Billy Corregan alledgly co-wrote. Sounds Like Nirvanna too much.
(PS If you watch the people versus Larry Flint, she gets nude......Don't be sucked in by accident she was younger and the blonde hair and her top "assests" look OK but man when they hit the waist.........ewwwwwwwwwww

 

[rhino]

Re: no room for centrists

I disagree, but I think it's because "centrist" is not defined properly in our socio-political culture.

The center should be strict adherence to the US Constitution as it is written, and interpreted based on the body of supporting documents that were published at the time. That should be the very center. That should not be considered extreme right wing wackadoodle land.

 

[churchmouse]

Courtney....

 

[jamil]

I don't believe the country has the stomach for what it would take to do that..... And INGO has clear rules on even discussing it.....

So what do we do???? We throw stones at each other, nit pick nuances and make up clever names in which to dismiss those whose views we do not share....The fact that Trump, Fiorina, and Carson just recently joined the Republican Party, have never held public office of any kind and are leading the polls tells me the tide MAY be turning just a bit in the right direction...

Democrats are more loyal to their candidates...Republicans (apparently) will eat their own and chase it down with a shot of Bourbon...If enough Republicans do it this time and "Yellow Dog" Democrats eventually stray off the Reservation then at some point I suppose it could happen.....

You would be fun to grill with I think....

It would only require a change in the way we vote, which would require a change in the constitution. The logical conclusion of our electoral system is a two-party dominated electorate. Change that to a system that doesn't favor just two parties, and elections where there are just two choices in candidates, and the parties become less important.

 

[indiucky]

I am with you on Courtney. I saw that BBC documentary too. Along with the dead witness from the punk band.....

The former Police Chief of Seattle summed it up best..."If I was still Chief I would reopen that case and treat it as a murder..." Shells don't eject from the left side of a Remington model 11...Just not possible...I believe he was shot from about 15 feet away...The paramedic on the scene recognized it was Kurt Cobain and as he said "If he would have put that barrel in his mouth I would not have been able to recognize anything..."

I was so pissed after watching that and pissed that we let the media create the narrative led by Courtney Love...Tragic....I hope I live long enough to see someone reopen the case and make her pay....

Those audio tapes were chilling as hell....

 

[Thor]

The multi-party system...it worked so well for the Weimar Republic...virtually guaranteeing that a radicalized minority could generate a majority vote.

Voting your conscience may leave you with an unconscionable outcome. Just recommending caution where we tread...

 

[jamil]

The multi-party system...it worked so well for the Weimar Republic...virtually guaranteeing that a radicalized minority could generate a majority vote.

Voting your conscience may leave you with an unconscionable outcome. Just recommending caution where we tread...

I understand the concern. And seeing the Trump phenomenon is what made me think that this is the answer. Because that concern is mitigated by using ranked balloting.

The republican primary presents and ideal example. Trump leads among Republican voters, but also leads in unfavorability. So let's say he gets 25% of the vote, but has a 65% unfavorability rating. In a "first past the post" election like we have now, yeah, Trump would win. And 65% would hate that outcome. Once he's past the post, no one else essentially has any say.

But in ranked balloting everyone else gets a choice too. In that kind of system, Trump would occupy first place on 25% of ballots. But he would be near last place on 65% of ballots. So for his competition, let's say Carson is in second place in terms of top votes with 20%. And because his favorability is higher he would rank near the top on more ballots even though he has fewer 1st place votes. In that election Trump would lose even though 25% wanted him to win. Carson would win because more voters ranked him higher overall.

If that's applied to the general election, the most popular candidate can still lose to a candidate who has favorability with more people but is not THE favorite of most. That's a much more representative system. Most people won't get their first choice but at least they're more likely to end up with someone they can stand.

 

[JS1911]

Bayh was nothing but a leftist slimeball who managed to act conservative enough to take root in Indiana. I seem to recall that his political demise was a product of supporting ObamaCare. I hope the payoff was worth the cost of having a political future. Goodbye and good riddance.

Exactly. Bayh was scum and we're much better off without him.

 

[Thor]

Maybe they should go back to the old way of just having the parties choose their candidate via the state conventions voting their choice? Or...maybe having a vetting process for those allowed to run in that parties primary. That would have generated a "I'm sorry Mr. Trump, but you are not a Republican and can not participate in our primary." response.

The reason Trump has such high negatives in the R base is because he has not been a R...well, ever. And he still supports a lot of tyranny...in fact I think his whole platform is based on tyranny.

"You are STUPID, Shut up and sit down...you're fired...you that electorate thing, shut up."

 

[BugI02]

I call Bull Excrement.....

Echo chambers are boring....The guys I disagree with the most and **** off the most are the reason I come to INGO....Who the hell wants to sit around in a circle with everyone nodding in agreement????

Stay Gold Pony Boy.....

PS....I think Courtney Love had Kurt Cobain murdered...No...I am sure of it....

He knew too much about her role in the 9/11 coverup

 

[BugI02]

You're right. Both parties have a base that loathes centrists. And because we have a two party system centrists are gonna be stuck with one or the other. And that is probably something where centrists could find some common ground with the fringes. The main stream party view is partisan. They want the two-party system. Breaking the two party system should be a priority among everyone who isn't partisan, regardless of whether they're conservative, liberal, libertarian, moderate.

You have hit upon one constraint on the system which, if altered, might advantageously affect the outcome. IBsteveh

 

[Bill of Rights]

...

Echo chambers are boring....The guys I disagree with the most and **** off the most are the reason I come to INGO....Who the hell wants to sit around in a circle with everyone nodding in agreement????

...

Disagreement is fine. Personally, I agree with the concept my avatar popularized, wherein we can disagree without being disagreeable. You don't have to **** others off, nor do you have to get pissed off at others. Back in 2008, I had been on here a whole 6 months, and engaged in a running discussion with one of INGO's very vocal, self-described liberals, and at no point did we descend into namecalling or other unpleasantness. (The discussion was on the meaning/definition of the term "liberal", and covered many diverse topics, but in the end, I think we both came away with a better understanding of each other's positions)

Doing otherwise is just

Blessings,
Bill

 

[indiucky]

He knew too much about her role in the 9/11 coverup

Cortney Love is Mossad???? Who would have thunk it???