Watching movies at home?

[Kutnupe14]

Ever borrowed a book? A CD? A VHS tape? A DVD?

Do you think it was ok to take that content without paying for it?

Are you a Libertarian? I have friends that are that hold what I think your stance is.... which is that there's no such thing as intellectual property. I myself haven't really decided what I think on the issue.

 

[steveh_131]

Are you a Libertarian? I have friends that are that hold what I think your stance is.... which is that there's no such thing as intellectual property. I myself haven't really decided what I think on the issue.

I am primarily libertarian in my views. And yes, I think that intellectual property is an entirely legal construct with no ethical basis (but I don't know that this is a widely-held libertarian opinion).

Most people support the protection of this property because they think that creative works will cease to be created without this protection. I think that history demonstrates otherwise.

 

[hoosierdoc]

If you really look at the rights you get when you buy a movie, it is not what you assume it is. You are buying the right to view it for a while. You do not own the content. You own the ability to watch it in specified conditions.

this is going to cause a problem when everything is digital and people start seeing the truth. My cousin's FIL is in San Fran and an exec at a large media company handling these contracts and streaming solutions. Reality is not what we think it is.

 

[tatic05]

If you really look at the rights you get when you buy a movie, it is not what you assume it is. You are buying the right to view it for a while. You do not own the content. You own the ability to watch it in specified conditions.

this is going to cause a problem when everything is digital and people start seeing the truth. My cousin's FIL is in San Fran and an exec at a large media company handling these contracts and streaming solutions. Reality is not what we think it is.

What's "awhile"?

 

[steveh_131]

If you really look at the rights you get when you buy a movie, it is not what you assume it is. You are buying the right to view it for a while. You do not own the content. You own the ability to watch it in specified conditions.

this is going to cause a problem when everything is digital and people start seeing the truth. My cousin's FIL is in San Fran and an exec at a large media company handling these contracts and streaming solutions. Reality is not what we think it is.

I have agreed to no such contracts.

 

[CZB1962]

Yes, I still buy CD. The sound is way better than those compressed ****.

At my age I can't possibly hear the difference

 

[hoosierdoc]

I have agreed to no such contracts.

Yes you did. I'll try to find information On what I'm talking about and post

 

[steveh_131]

Yes you did. I'll try to find information On what I'm talking about and post

I didn't buy the movie and I am under no inferred contractual obligations, even if I thought such contracts were legitimate.

 

[Mr Evilwrench]

Ok, my face doesn't hurt quite as much now.

If you bought it, consent to the contract is implied, even if you refuse to read it. How many times have you read through the pages of legalese when you installed a piece of software? You still had to check the box that said you consent to it all. If you didn't buy it (presuming it wasn't offered free of charge) then you stole it.

The whole point of Libertarianism is mutual consent between the parties of a transaction, and you're not honoring that. Your rights extend only as far as they don't violate those of others. I despise my neighbor to the north, but I wouldn't trade him for you.

 

[steveh_131]

The whole point of Libertarianism is mutual consent between the parties of a transaction, and you're not honoring that. Your rights extend only as far as they don't violate those of others. I despise my neighbor to the north, but I wouldn't trade him for you.

If I didn't purchase the movie then I am not a part of any type of contract, implied or otherwise.

 

[hoosierdoc]

I didn't buy the movie and I am under no inferred contractual obligations, even if I thought such contracts were legitimate.

thought we were discussing ownership. You replied to my post as if you did. I guess I was confused. Are you referring to PPV or renting/borrowing? If you receive something that was illegally given, you are not in the clear, hate to tell ya.

 

[steveh_131]

thought we were discussing ownership. You replied to my post as if you did. I guess I was confused. Are you referring to PPV or renting/borrowing? If you receive something that was illegally given, you are not in the clear, hate to tell ya.

Let's talk morality. Let's stick with movie downloads, since it is the subject of this thread. I can't seem to get a straight answer spelling out the exact moral violation taking place. Which specific act is immoral?

Is digital duplication inherently immoral?
Is viewing the movie without paying immoral?
Is it a breaking of some implied contract that is immoral?

You guys are all over the place.

 

[Mr Evilwrench]

If you didn't purchase the movie, then you took it without the consent of its owner, and the contract you're part of is copyright law.

 

[steveh_131]

If you didn't purchase the movie, then you took it without the consent of its owner, and the contract you're part of is copyright law.

So this is an issue of legality, not morality.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Let's talk morality. Let's stick with movie downloads, since it is the subject of this thread. I can't seem to get a straight answer spelling out the exact moral violation taking place. Which specific act is immoral?

Is digital duplication inherently immoral?
Is viewing the movie without paying immoral?
Is it a breaking of some implied contract that is immoral?

You guys are all over the place.

see below

If you didn't purchase the movie, then you took it without the consent of its owner, and the contract you're part of is copyright law.

Digital duplication of intellectual property (movie/song/software/etc/schematics/etc) without permission that someone has retained the right to is illegal. It's immoral (stealing), and also illegal (copyright law). Of course morality is what you chose to base on your life on. What is immortal to me may not be immoral to you. I'd think theft is a common moral basis, but maybe not...

In the US, your rights to purchased media expire in 27 years. I heard back from my cousin's FIL. Every country is different, but in the US your copy of Bambi that you bought 30 years ago is probably no long legally licensed to you.

 

[steveh_131]

You guys are really going in circles here.

First, downloading a movie was immoral because it was theft.

When I asked how something can be theft when nobody is deprived of their property,it was then argued to be immoral because I was viewing it without paying the owner.

When I asked why it was morally acceptable to borrow a physical DVD and watch it without paying, then downloading became immoral because I was duplicating the content, a violation of a contract.

When I asked how I could be bound to a contract that I didn't agree to, downloading then became immoral because it violates copyright law.

So, really, you guys have no moral grounds. You have legal grounds. And I agree, you do have legal grounds because intellectual property is nothing but a legal construct straight from someone's imagination to ensure more profit for content creators.

Which is exactly why I call it imaginary property.

 

[Mr Evilwrench]

"Legality" is the encoding of "morality" (in whatever form the encoders interpret it) in law. Don't like the interpretation? Take it up with the legislatards. Just wandering off and violating laws like that isn't going to fly.

 

[steveh_131]

"Legality" is the encoding of "morality" (in whatever form the encoders interpret it) in law. Don't like the interpretation? Take it up with the legislatards. Just wandering off and violating laws like that isn't going to fly.

If you believe in copyright law, you should be able to defend it in moral terms.

 

[mbills2223]

You guys are really going in circles here.

 

[steveh_131]

You ran away from the tough questions far too early to be making fun.