watch out my car was just car shopped

[juggaloxjj4]

I do have question for the OP now that I think about it.... Was there alcohol involved? I know anytime I've played cards that late at night either red bull or alcohol was present. If you had been drinking then that is one more thing to think about next time before strapping on a gun. We have had numerous debates about drinking and carrying a firearm, and I don't want to turn this thread into one of those, but I will say, with privilege comes responsibility. (drinking and carrying a gun are more of 'rights' but let's not go there.) Think about the situations you are putting yourself, and your gun in.

EDIT: Op, don't answer my question about alcohol. I did not know you were 19 and don't want you to incriminate yourself more, just take it as more food for thought.

-PFC

No i dont mind answering i was not drunk or on any legal materials i have never drank any alcohol in my life for personal reasons and i dont do drugs the thing that happened was me seeing one of my last worldly possesions being vandalized and molested by two scum of the earth. I felt wronged and wasnt about to sit down and take this. And all i can say is that none of you were there to wisper these wise words of advice in my ear. All i heard was "hey that guy broke into your car" "hey wait there he is"

 

[redneckmedic]

Isn't it a little late to defend yourself after you have suffered loss of consciousness?

 

[Speed Kills]

Wow. You're not too bright, are you? And with a name involving "juggalo," I guess I'm not surprised.


You're one of those people that makes me fear for my life of being struck by a stray bullet out of rage of some low life ******* breaking into your car. That's not what your carry is for, and I suggest you learn that, and get yourself under control.....

 

[techres]

I want to thank the OP for posting. This is a good topic of discussion and I want to encourage everyone to keep it at that. I am guessing at some of the mistakes others on this board have made but never posted about them...

Also, any more prison house ***** comments about the OP and I will close this thread.

 

[Pale Rider]

No i dont mind answering i was not drunk or on any legal materials i have never drank any alcohol in my life for personal reasons and i dont do drugs the thing that happened was me seeing one of my last worldly possesions being vandalized and molested by two scum of the earth. I felt wronged and wasnt about to sit down and take this. And all i can say is that none of you were there to wisper these wise words of advice in my ear. All i heard was "hey that guy broke into your car" "hey wait there he is"

Good to hear no alcohol. You're right we weren't their to help you calm down and make you think twice. I just hoping after reading through this thread you'll be better prepared next time. May I suggest what I've known as the Bob Knight Rule.... Don't listen to the yelling, listen to why he's yelling. Translated for here: Don't listen to the flaming and insults, but listen and think about why they were written and try not to get too defensive. Remember you threw the story out on the internet, making available for the world to judge and comment on, take it in stride and continue growing!

 

[LEaSH]

I could share some stupid things that I have done when I was 19 - but they didn't involve any firearms.

Truth be told, I've owned a handgun since about 22 years old (so about 15 years now). Never went for it for any reason. Never had to clear my house for a suspicious noise. Never had to chase anybody away from my personal property or space.

I did have some things stolen from me about two years ago - out of my vehicle. Parked in a nicer neighborhood than mine! So I went hunting for them - but not with a firearm on my person. Never found anything or anyone. I swore I'd break their fingers when I caught them - but that was just my little excitable inner ruffian coming out.

 

[smiley69_300]

Good to hear no alcohol. You're right we weren't their to help you calm down and make you think twice. I just hoping after reading through this thread you'll be better prepared next time. May I suggest what I've known as the Bob Knight Rule.... Don't listen to the yelling, listen to why he's yelling. Translated for here: Don't listen to the flaming and insults, but listen and think about why they were written and try not to get too defensive. Remember you threw the story out on the internet, making available for the world to judge and comment on, take it in stride and continue growing!

Very well said.

Everyone makes mistakes. It just depends if we learn from them or not.

 

[Bubba]

I think 7 pages has done plenty to point out how full of Fail the OP is from a legal, moral and tactical standpoint, but no one's mentioned the safety aspect yet. We don't run or climb over fences with hunting rifles in hand, so why sprint about an apartment complex with a handgun out if you aren't dodging and/or running from incoming fire? One slip on the ice and you've at best scratched and damaged a valuable firearm, at worst you catch the trigger and send one through your leg, ribs, head, etc...

 

[Speed Kills]

IOne slip on the ice and you've at best scratched and damaged a valuable firearm, at worst you catch the trigger and send one through some innocent bystander and do maim someone you had no intention to harm.

Fixed for accuracy.

The real problem here is the OP sees no folly in his ways. Mainly that "we weren't there" and that hims seeing his possessions vandalized was reason enough to draw....

 

[Chuck26287]

No i dont mind answering i was not drunk or on any legal materials i have never drank any alcohol in my life for personal reasons and i dont do drugs the thing that happened was me seeing one of my last worldly possesions being vandalized and molested by two scum of the earth. I felt wronged and wasnt about to sit down and take this. And all i can say is that none of you were there to wisper these wise words of advice in my ear. All i heard was "hey that guy broke into your car" "hey wait there he is"

You absolutely were wronged, and you shouldn't just sit down and take it. For any given situation of being wronged, our legal system offers us very specific ways to seek justice. I personally feel many of them will never offer the satisfaction one seeks, but it's what is available to us. Your mistake was in evaluating the situation and determining the method in which to stand up against being wronged. Your gun was not an acceptable method to not "sit down and take this".

One thing you say really bothers me...

"And all i can say is that none of you were there to wisper these wise words of advice in my ear."

This is not our responsibility, and we will NEVER be there at the onset of an altercation to wisely advise you on the use of your handgun. You must take that responsibility on for not only yourself, but for any innocent bystanders who may be nearby when you carry a handgun. A statement like the one above is seen by many responsible gun owners as a sign of gross immaturity when it comes to carrying a deadly weapon. Well, maybe I should just speak for myself... this is how I see it.

I would like to give you some advise. There is a member on here with the username "Gun Lawyer". He offers classes specifically on IN gun law and general gun safety I believe. Please consider taking either his class, or a similar class as soon as possible. You are only 20 years old according to your profile. You have your whole life ahead of you, and I really think you may not realize how incredibly close you came to scarring it for life.

IC 35-47-4-3
Pointing firearm at another person
Sec. 3. (a) This section does not apply to a law enforcement officer who is acting within the scope of the law enforcement officer's official duties or to a person who is justified in using reasonable force against another person under:
(1) IC 35-41-3-2; or
(2) IC 35-41-3-3.
(b) A person who knowingly or intentionally points a firearm at another person commits a Class D felony. However, the offense is a Class A misdemeanor if the firearm was not loaded.
As added by P.L.296-1995, SEC.2.

I'm 47 years old, and every job application I've ever filled out asked if I've ever been convicted of a felony. Ever wonder why convicted felons have such a hard time getting a decent job? That convicted felon would have been YOU if you had been successful in stopping that guy and the police had gotten there with him telling his side of the story.

It would be a huge sign of maturity if you were to realize you may not be truly prepared to safely carry a handgun in public, and put it away until you educated yourself a little more. Give it some thought, okay?

 

[Denny347]

Isn't it a little late to defend yourself after you have suffered loss of consciousness?

I was only going over the definition of SBI. I think if you took a hit that a reasonable person would believe COULD escalate to you losing consciousness, with a following hit, that would meet the definition. Reading these court cases, I see that the judges comment on how important is it to ARTICULATE all the elements precisely and accurately. They can only consider testimony entered into evidence. If you are involved in a fight that requires you to pull your pistol and fire, you may well be 100% justified based on the particular facts of this incident. However, you will do yourself a disservice with poor articulation. That is why having a good working knowledge with the law (and just as importantly judicial rulings) and a good lawyer will make sure ALL the facts are presented accurately.
http://www.in.gov/judiciary/opinions/pdf/12220906mgr.pd

 

[45Guy]

This is the very kind of thing that gives the socialist ammo to attack our second amendment rights. You need to learn what is a realistic, reasonable, and appropriate use of force is before you start running around waving a firearm.
You were wrong as soon as you drew your weapon and furthermore no one and I mean no one is going to believe for even one minute that a Police Officer would say that you should have shot out a tire.

As usual it only takes one dolt to spoil it for everyone.

 

[TheLoneRaider]

Instead of pulling the gun should have pulled a camera phone and took a pic of the license plate or the BG.

 

[finity]

OK, now that everybody has had their fun jumping all over the OP & insulting his intelligence, let's talk about this like the rational adults we're all supposed to be.

The IC gives someone legal authority to point their handgun at someone while trying to protect their property:

IC 35-47-4-3
Pointing firearm at another person
Sec. 3. (a) This section does not apply to a law enforcement officer who is acting within the scope of the law enforcement officer's official duties or to a person who is justified in using reasonable force against another person under:
(1) IC 35-41-3-2; or
(2) IC 35-41-3-3.
(b) A person who knowingly or intentionally points a firearm at another person commits a Class D felony. However, the offense is a Class A misdemeanor if the firearm was not loaded.
As added by P.L.296-1995, SEC.2.

So...let's see what IC 35-41-3-2 says with respect to property:

IC 35-41-3-2
Use of force to protect person or property
.
.
(c) With respect to property other than a dwelling, curtilage, or an occupied motor vehicle, a person is justified in using reasonable force against another person if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to immediately prevent or terminate the other person's trespass on or criminal interference with property lawfully in the person's possession, lawfully in possession of a member of the person's immediate family, or belonging to a person whose property the person has authority to protect. However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
only if that force is justified under subsection (a).

So...the pointing of a firearm at someone is illegal UNLESS someone feels it is reasonably necessary to stop someone from stealing their property.

However, They can't SHOOT the other person UNLESS that person threatens them with SBI.

Shooting someone's tire or window is the same as using deadly force just the same as it woiuld be if you "just shot them in the leg to scare them". If you can't legally use deadly force, you can't shoot in their direction either.

Here is a (somewhat) recent thread about pretty much this exact scenario.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_issues_and_self_defense/53323-can_you_shoot_him.html

For people to rant on about how stupid or irresponsible the OP is or how he should not carry is fairly unproductive.

Look up the laws & have a reasonable debate.

I personally don't think it was the best decision to run after the person on foot when they were in a car (from a tactical standpoint). Trolling around the neighborhood to see if you could find the guys is not a bad thing. I mean, you are an eyewitness to the guy & the car. Who better to notify the police where they are if you can find them. Confronting them after you found them...not so much.

 

[Militarypol21]

To the OP: Was there anything taken from the vehicle or was the window just busted out?

 

[Bill B]

I would like to give you some advise. There is a member on here with the username "Gun Lawyer". He offers classes specifically on IN gun law and general gun safety I believe. Please consider taking either his class, or a similar class as soon as possible.... ...Give it some thought, okay?

this is the best advice I've seen in the thread.
I recently took the Indiana Gun Law class, it was very enlighting and made me think about my responsibilities as a gun owner with LTCH, and I'm 41 (young to some, ancient to others).

 

[USMC_0311]

i saw him walk away from my car to the side of the building it was him and the police said it was him and the cop i talked to said i SHOULD OF SHOT A TIRE OUT?

Well there you go.....shoot the tire next time.....NOT

Big Fail if you do.

 

[Jack Ryan]

and how come everytime someone has one of these stories they have to say what kind of firearm they pulled? "pulled my glock 17 with crimson laser grips and hi cap mag loaded down with hollow point and went after him"

...translation from juggalox internet speak to follow...

"My dad's car battery was dead because I left the interior light on and I had to walk home after dark. It was cool though because I had my Crossman 10 pumper pellet gun loaded with darts with me from shooting at the dart board in my friends basement."

 

[public servant]

I would venture to say that pulling a gun on someone that you didn't actually see break the window (not that it would matter if you saw them or not...but in this case the OP did not)...then chasing them with the gun still out is generally a bad idea and could lead to all kinds of unwanted consequences.

 

[finity]

I would venture to say that pulling a gun on someone that you didn't actually see break the window (not that it would matter if you saw them or not...but in this case the OP did not)...

I agree that if he didn't see him break the window or see him with his property he doesn't have much justification for pulling his gun.