VZ 24 Help Needed: Advice and Guidance Sought

[ztnoo]

I inherited a Czech VZ 24 from my father which is sporterized. I shot the thing a few times as a kid, but never really knew or understood much about the rifle. Dad never shot it much either and its been on a gun rack on a den wall for the bigger part of at least 50 years. I'd like to occasionally use it at a range, but given the time elapsed since last used, I feel its imperative I fully explore and fully understand what I have and what may or may not being going on with it. I have posed my problem and questions at Mauser Central your Restoring and Sporterizing Resource and have received some great input. It can be reviewed here, if desired, for more details:
Mauser Central ? Login

The short of it is, I am not certain, actually I DON'T KNOW DEFINITIVELY what the caliber of this rifle is. I don't know if its standard 8 x 57, modified for 30-06, or jury rigged with something else. Because of the ammo I have, I'm guessing its 8 x 57 or 30-06. But, I'm not going to take any chances with this. I have had advice at Mauser Central to have a chamber casting made, the bore slugged, and the headspace checked to understand what I'm dealing with. Also, a close inspection for cracking and fissuring in the barrel has been suggested.

I need to find some competent, knowledgeable gunsmiths here in central Indiana to give me their professional appraisal of my rifle. I'm not talking about a sales person standing behind a counter promoting firearms and ammo sales. I know enough to understand having a gun shop doesn't necessarily mean there is professional gunsmithing being done on the premises. I need expertise, competency, and mechanical knowledge to understand what I have and what my options may be. Otherwise, I risk potential failure and serious injury.

Can you experienced users here, particularly rifle guys who are Mauser enthusiasts, suggest gunsmiths here in central Indiana offering the services I mentioned above, who are especially skilled with Mausers? What I'm really asking is, if you were me with this situation, who would you entrust the gun to? Since I'm pretty new to this and the gun community in general, full names and all relevant contact info would be deeply appreciated. It would be my desire do have this work done as locally as possible, rather than shipping it off somewhere like California or North Carolina to an unseen face. I live in Grant County.

Looking forward to your opinions and input.

Regards,
ztnoo

 

[mkgr22]

The advice to have a chamber cast made is spot on. If you were in Southern Indiana, I could help, but I don't know about Grant County area gunsmiths. Good luck!!

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I agree with mkgr22, although you should be able to see right away if it's not 30-06. Try chambering a 30-06 round (don't force it). If it's an 8mm (7.9x57), the longer 30-06 (7.62x63) round shouldn't chamber. Not foolproof but it should at least rule out the 30-06 if it doesn't chamber.

 

[mkgr22]

I agree with mkgr22, although you should be able to see right away if it's not 30-06. Try chambering a 30-06 round (don't force it). If it's an 8mm (7.9x57), the longer 30-06 (7.62x63) round shouldn't chamber. Not foolproof but it should at least rule out the 30-06 if it doesn't chamber.

The problem with that, Jim, is that it doesn't rule out the 8mm-06 wildcat, that a lot of military barrels were rechambered for years ago when 8x57 was scarce.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

The problem with that, Jim, is that it doesn't rule out the 8mm-06 wildcat, that a lot of military barrels were rechambered for years ago when 8x57 was scarce.

Wow, I'd never even heard of that round Mike. OP, listen to him ^^^ not me! They don't call him "Mauser Mike" for nothin'.

 

[ztnoo]

8mm-06 wildcat may be an outside possibility, but rather low I think. I just need some expertise to help me figure it all out.
I did find some interesting info on 8mm-06 wildcats here:
8mm-06
8mm-06Wildcat
8X57 vs 8mm-06 - THR

It appears I have some 8 x 57 mm reloaded Remington casings and a whole lot more 30-06 AP (DM 42, black tip).
I have no idea where Dad came by that stuff.
It only confuses the issue.

Note the overall length differential. 63mm brass on left, 57mm brass on right two shells

Comparison with rule:

Bottom of brass: left marked “DM 42”; two right marked “Super Speed 8mm Mauser”

Can anyone steer me towards the type of gunsmith and expert I am in need of?

I'm going to try to get to Kokomo this weekend for that show and hope to scratch around and find some answers there. Could be some slippin' and slidin' according to the forecast.

Regards,
ztnoo

 

[mkgr22]

Is the barrel of the rifle tapered, or stepped? If it is stepped, it's likely the original barrel.

Will your rifle's bolt close on the .30.06 round? If not, then this is not a 8mm-06 conversion.

If you stick the bullet of the 8x57 in the muzzle, does it fit tight, like in the picture I attached below? Then your rifle is very likely still in the original 8x57. But I would still have it checked to be certain.

View attachment 34365

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Unfortunately the only gunsmith I know that works with Mausers is down here in Indy. There is another that is also very good located in Brownsburg. He's a member here. You might try messaging him - He goes by Squirt239.

Drat... I just saw that you don't have enough posts to PM him. I'll send him a message and point him to this thread.

 

[Squirt239]

I'll do the chamber cast for you. Have the stuff here ready to go. Are you free Monday?

 

[DocIndy]

I'll do the chamber cast for you. Have the stuff here ready to go. Are you free Monday?

Brett can get you taken care of. He just did one for a coworker on a Mauser he picked up and had questions about.

 

[ztnoo]

Thanks for the help and replies, Gentlemen. I have emailed Brett at his website email addy and will try to work something out for him to look at the rifle. We're about 1 1/2-2 hours apart, but that's not a huge deal to get the kind of professional answers I need.

 

[ztnoo]

and the beat goes on.................

Is the barrel of the rifle tapered, or stepped? If it is stepped, it's likely the original barrel.

mkgr22,
Yes, I have a "stepped barrel" and I suspect it is correct for the gun, although not matching numbers.
That's not a biggie for me.
I mainly just don't care to blow the right side of my skull in, thus my hyper concerns about the calibration.
That would really upset my deceased physician father.

I think B. Havlin will go a long way towards figuring things out for me.

Geeeezzz, this is a super resource, with great, interested, and engaged readers.
I'm feeling very fortunate to have landed here.
Thanks everyone!!!

Regards,
Steve (ztnoo)

 

[DoggyDaddy]

mkgr22,
Yes, I have a "stepped barrel" and I suspect it is correct for the gun, although not matching numbers.
That's not a biggie for me.
I mainly just don't care to blow the right side of my skull in, thus my hyper concerns about the calibration.
That would really upset my deceased physician father.

I think B. Havlin will go a long way towards figuring things out for me.

Geeeezzz, this is a super resource, with great, interested, and engaged readers.
I'm feeling very fortunate to have landed here.
Thanks everyone!!!

Regards,
Steve (ztnoo)

Well, you can always do what I do... bungee the rifle to a lead sled and use a long piece of string to pull the trigger... Actually I'm half serious there. I really do this if I have any question about the rifle's "shoot-worthiness". With that VZ 24, you are most likely not going to have any problems once you determine the caliber (and my money is on it being 8x57). Those Mauser actions are pretty robust. Looking forward to hearing what Brett finds out for you.

 

[ztnoo]

Certainty at last.....

Given everyone's great responses, suggestions, and input to my first thread at the website, I wanted to post an update to share what was discovered.

On Monday, I had an appointment at Havlin's to have the VZ examined and a chamber cast made to determine what I really had in the way of caliber.
This was my very first visit to a gunsmith's shop and I was made to feel completely comfortable and welcome in his shop even though I lacked experience as a gun owner. Brett also was a good listener and was very engaged with what I was telling him about the gun he was examining for me. His skills were evident to me as he quickly and confidently handled my gun, one he had never seen before. I am especially appreciative about him pointing out his observations about many things including the year of manufacture, how the rifle was set up, and how some of the "sporterized" modifications had been done. This was information I would have never known or realized without his input.

Under the front scope mount, the date of manufacture was hidden. On top of the receiver under the mount, was engraved the date of 1937. From a historical perspective, it was interesting to me this rifle was produced in a "free Czechoslovakia" prior to the German annexation of March,1939. On the bottom side of the barrel (after removal of the receiver and barrel from the stock) it was revealed the front and rear sights had been removed and the barrel had been turned in (rotated) approximately 1/2 turn more than originally made. This achieved a clean unblemished look on the new top of the barrel (the bottom originally). I was told this was a way many 50/60s sporterized conversions were accomplished economically, which of course didn't necessitate a change of barrels and possibly caliber. So, this explains the "stepped barrel" look....because it was likely the original barrel, just modified to achieve the "sporterized" look desired.

Finally we moved on to the chamber cast. I was very surprised how simple a process the casting is. Cerrosafe was used and it wasn't long before it was fluid enough to be poured into the chamber. Upon removal, the casting was compared by measurement to 8 x 57 mm shells both Havlin's had and ammo I brought along for comparison. There was no doubt I had a stock chambered 8 x 57 mm VZ Mauser. Further inspection of the receiver, chamber, and barrel by Havlin's left no doubt the rifle was safe to fire. The really curious thing to me is why my dad had the volume of 30-06 AP ammo he did, because to my knowledge he never owned a 30-06. That ammo caused a lot of confusion on my part, but thankfully I now know what I have in the VZ. 8 x 57 mm

I feel very fortunate to have found Havlin's and I feel very lucky to have Havlin's agree to examine my gun to determine the caliber I was dealing with. He instilled confidence in what I have and his verification it can be used safely. I hope to be able to utilize Havlin's again for my future firearm's needs. Great experience! Thank You!!!

And a big thanks to everyone here for your kind help.

Regards,
Steve

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Glad to hear that all went well! If you like the historical aspect of guns, you can drive yourself to distraction with Mausers. They were made for and by SO many countries. I would be hard pressed to think of another rifle with so many variants. There is a reason that the Mauser action is still the gold standard for bolt guns. Even the venerable Springfield 1903 and 03A3 copied it.

If you would like to learn more, here is a good place to start... The hard copy is the best, but you can get a good preview of what is in this book here:
Mauser Military Rifles of the World - Robert W.D. Ball - Google Books

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Well, you have a 7.92X57mm.

Good luck with the project, Steve. Throw up a pic when you get it done.

Here's my Vz24 pseudo-Scout:

(Stu Grell of Attica crowned the barrel, slicked the bolt, stoned the trigger, installed the CW sling and XS ghostring, and lopped off an inch off the stock and install the recoil pad)

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I've got two VZ 24's. This one I got from mkgr22:




This one I got from Falls City (indiucky's shop). It came with a Lyman rear peep sight installed. Love that thing!

 

[mkgr22]

Given everyone's great responses, suggestions, and input to my first thread at the website, I wanted to post an update to share what was discovered.

On Monday, I had an appointment at Havlin's to have the VZ examined and a chamber cast made to determine what I really had in the way of caliber.
This was my very first visit to a gunsmith's shop and I was made to feel completely comfortable and welcome in his shop even though I lacked experience as a gun owner. Brett also was a good listener and was very engaged with what I was telling him about the gun he was examining for me. His skills were evident to me as he quickly and confidently handled my gun, one he had never seen before. I am especially appreciative about him pointing out his observations about many things including the year of manufacture, how the rifle was set up, and how some of the "sporterized" modifications had been done. This was information I would have never known or realized without his input.

Under the front scope mount, the date of manufacture was hidden. On top of the receiver under the mount, was engraved the date of 1937. From a historical perspective, it was interesting to me this rifle was produced in a "free Czechoslovakia" prior to the German annexation of March,1939. On the bottom side of the barrel (after removal of the receiver and barrel from the stock) it was revealed the front and rear sights had been removed and the barrel had been turned in (rotated) approximately 1/2 turn more than originally made. This achieved a clean unblemished look on the new top of the barrel (the bottom originally). I was told this was a way many 50/60s sporterized conversions were accomplished economically, which of course didn't necessitate a change of barrels and possibly caliber. So, this explains the "stepped barrel" look....because it was likely the original barrel, just modified to achieve the "sporterized" look desired.

Finally we moved on to the chamber cast. I was very surprised how simple a process the casting is. Cerrosafe was used and it wasn't long before it was fluid enough to be poured into the chamber. Upon removal, the casting was compared by measurement to 8 x 57 mm shells both Havlin's had and ammo I brought along for comparison. There was no doubt I had a stock chambered 8 x 57 mm VZ Mauser. Further inspection of the receiver, chamber, and barrel by Havlin's left no doubt the rifle was safe to fire. The really curious thing to me is why my dad had the volume of 30-06 AP ammo he did, because to my knowledge he never owned a 30-06. That ammo caused a lot of confusion on my part, but thankfully I now know what I have in the VZ. 8 x 57 mm

I feel very fortunate to have found Havlin's and I feel very lucky to have Havlin's agree to examine my gun to determine the caliber I was dealing with. He instilled confidence in what I have and his verification it can be used safely. I hope to be able to utilize Havlin's again for my future firearm's needs. Great experience! Thank You!!!

And a big thanks to everyone here for your kind help.

Regards,
Steve

Steve, thanks for letting us know how it worked out for you. Too many times people post requests for help, but don't report their results.

Now, when the weather breaks, we hope to get a report from the range.

Good luck,
Mike

 

[ztnoo]

I'm curious to know what all of you shoot in your 8 x 57 mm Mausers?

A couple of weeks ago at the Kokomo Central Indiana Gun Show I ran across some Turkish brass cartridge 8 x 57 rounds being sold on 5 round clips for $3 per clip. That's 60 cents per round, i.e. $60 per 100 rounds. Seemed pretty cheap to me, but given my limited experience, I don't pretend to know much. I don't know for sure, but I'd say the seller had 400-500 rounds. Could probably been bought for less, if I had wanted to take most or all of it. Did I miss the boat? I've read Turkish rounds tend to be be a bit hotter and more dependable that some of the eastern European ammo. Apparently Yugo ammo has harder primers which have some dependability issues. I do know domestically produced 8 x 57 ammo tends to be pricey and I've read the loads aren't as hot as foreign rounds and aren't really what the rounds are capable of delivering. There's Yugo and Romanian ammo around some of which has steel casings that seem a lot more favorably priced generally than domestic ammo.
What are you guys using? When you are purchasing ammo, what are you generally paying for it?
If you are avoiding anything in particular, that would be helpful to know, as well as your individual reasons for avoiding it.

Regards,
Steve

 

[indy1919a4]

Get some of each and see which round works best in your gun....

Per the Hard primer issue, if that is a problem in your gun, you can fix it with a new $8 spring and 5 mins to replace it...

A few surplus rounds (I have found) are just unreliable (bad primers) Iraqi & Eqyptian.

Best surplus rounds I have ever used are Romanian, Greek, Turk , Portuguese & Yugo But get several of each.. Try them out,... Shucks, I have even been told in the bigger cities you can even buy Commercial 8mm

And you can still get Yugo 8mm in the 40 cents a round price