VZ 24 Help Needed: Advice and Guidance Sought

[indy1919a4]

[/URL]

That is one dang fine Crest

 

[DoggyDaddy]

That is one dang fine Crest

The good ol' Rampant Lion.

 

[indy1919a4]

Or Griffin... I like Griffins

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I'm curious to know what all of you shoot in your 8 x 57 mm Mausers?

Heavy softpoints.

Mine is dialed in for the Serb 196 gr. stuff.

 

[BugI02]

Given everyone's great responses, suggestions, and input to my first thread at the website, I wanted to post an update to share what was discovered.

On Monday, I had an appointment at Havlin's to have the VZ examined and a chamber cast made to determine what I really had in the way of caliber.
This was my very first visit to a gunsmith's shop and I was made to feel completely comfortable and welcome in his shop even though I lacked experience as a gun owner. Brett also was a good listener and was very engaged with what I was telling him about the gun he was examining for me. His skills were evident to me as he quickly and confidently handled my gun, one he had never seen before. I am especially appreciative about him pointing out his observations about many things including the year of manufacture, how the rifle was set up, and how some of the "sporterized" modifications had been done. This was information I would have never known or realized without his input.

Under the front scope mount, the date of manufacture was hidden. On top of the receiver under the mount, was engraved the date of 1937. From a historical perspective, it was interesting to me this rifle was produced in a "free Czechoslovakia" prior to the German annexation of March,1939. On the bottom side of the barrel (after removal of the receiver and barrel from the stock) it was revealed the front and rear sights had been removed and the barrel had been turned in (rotated) approximately 1/2 turn more than originally made. This achieved a clean unblemished look on the new top of the barrel (the bottom originally). I was told this was a way many 50/60s sporterized conversions were accomplished economically, which of course didn't necessitate a change of barrels and possibly caliber. So, this explains the "stepped barrel" look....because it was likely the original barrel, just modified to achieve the "sporterized" look desired.

Finally we moved on to the chamber cast. I was very surprised how simple a process the casting is. Cerrosafe was used and it wasn't long before it was fluid enough to be poured into the chamber. Upon removal, the casting was compared by measurement to 8 x 57 mm shells both Havlin's had and ammo I brought along for comparison. There was no doubt I had a stock chambered 8 x 57 mm VZ Mauser. Further inspection of the receiver, chamber, and barrel by Havlin's left no doubt the rifle was safe to fire. The really curious thing to me is why my dad had the volume of 30-06 AP ammo he did, because to my knowledge he never owned a 30-06. That ammo caused a lot of confusion on my part, but thankfully I now know what I have in the VZ. 8 x 57 mm

I feel very fortunate to have found Havlin's and I feel very lucky to have Havlin's agree to examine my gun to determine the caliber I was dealing with. He instilled confidence in what I have and his verification it can be used safely. I hope to be able to utilize Havlin's again for my future firearm's needs. Great experience! Thank You!!!

And a big thanks to everyone here for your kind help.

Regards,
Steve

Steve, if the 30-06 ammo is boxer primed your dad may have been considering resizing the brass to reload 7.92x57. I've been considering this also because of the scarcity and expense of aquiring non-berdan 8mm brass. 30-06 is common and relatively inexpensive, plus I have other firearms in 30-06 so get to shoot some first. If you want more info on this process there is a wealth of advise available at a forum called "castboolits" (no, thats not a typo)

 

[BugI02]

P.S. I still don't know my colors here so nothing other than calling attention to the relevant part of the post was intended and was hoping purple was safe with no additional meanings.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

P.S. I still don't know my colors here so nothing other than calling attention to the relevant part of the post was intended and was hoping purple was safe with no additional meanings.

Well, actually purple means sarcasm here, so it's good that you explained yourself.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

BTW, I don't know if you're looking for some 8mm ammo, but I just saw some Romanian commercial (steel case) at the 1500 for $288/720 rounds, which comes out to about .40/round and should work just fine in any bolt gun.

 

[indy1919a4]

At the 1500 there was a better 8mm ammo representation then I had seen in some time

There was

Romanian commercial 8mm JS
PPU Commercial
Romanian surplus
German WW II Surplus
8mm yugo
Some Turk
Reloaded 8mm
And there was a another commercial ammo I never saw before

 

[DoggyDaddy]

At the 1500 there was a better 8mm ammo representation then I had seen in some time

There was

Romanian commercial 8mm JS
PPU Commercial
Romanian surplus
German WW II Surplus
8mm yugo
Some Turk
Reloaded 8mm
And there was a another commercial ammo I never saw before

I think you're talking about that Hot Shot stuff in the red, white and blue boxes. I think it's very similar to the other commercial Romanian in the green boxes. May even be made by the same people.

 

[ztnoo]

At the 1500 there was a better 8mm ammo representation then I had seen in some time

There was

Romanian commercial 8mm JS
PPU Commercial
Romanian surplus
German WW II Surplus
8mm yugo
Some Turk
Reloaded 8mm
And there was a another commercial ammo I never saw before

Geezzz.......that's pretty amazing to know that kind of variety of manufacturing was there!
That's kinda shocking to me. Off the cuff, based on what you guys claim to have seen at the 1500 (which I've never been to), it doesn't sound like there is a shortage of reasonably priced 8 x 57 ammo here in the area........central Indiana/Midwest. If I'm looking to buy some rounds, I may have a good caliber to have to get some reasonably priced ammo.

That Hotshot stuff looks to me to be steel cased and remarkably like Romanian rounds I've seen.

40 cents a round sounds like its priced to sell........anytime, anywhere.

Steve

 

[indy1919a4]

I think you're talking about that Hot Shot stuff in the red, white and blue boxes. I think it's very similar to the other commercial Romanian in the green boxes. May even be made by the same people.

Thanks DD,, I was loosing my gourd trying to remember that ammos name.. And I remember holding it in my hands saying this is a good price.. Many thanks ... And a photo to boot...

 

[mkgr22]

Thanks DD,, I was loosing my gourd trying to remember that ammos name.. And I remember holding it in my hands saying this is a good price.. Many thanks ... And a photo to boot...

Hot Shot is packaged and sold by Century.

 

[indy1919a4]

wrong post sorry

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Well, do NOT buy the stuff in the green boxes (and I suspect Hot Shot may be the same). It's sold as 8x57 JS and the rounds are way out of spec. They won't even chamber. Visual comparison to surplus Romanian and Turk and Yugo made it apparent that the cases are probably a good millimeter longer. I went back and read the reviews on Sportsman's Guide (after I bought a box to try) and they all say the same thing pretty much. And to think, a friend and I were going to buy a case of the stuff at the 1500! Glad we didn't.

This is it: 20 rds. 8mm Mauser 8x57mm JS 170 Grain FMJ Ammo - 283126, 8mm Ammo at Sportsman's Guide

*Edit* After some googling, it appears that the Hot Shot ammo is okay. Doesn't appear to have the out of spec issue.

 

[indy1919a4]

. It's sold as 8x57 JS and the rounds are way out of spec. They won't even chamber. Visual comparison to surplus Romanian and Turk and Yugo made it apparent that the cases are probably a good millimeter longer. .

Many thanks DD for the heads up, I had read that the company that made the repro FG-42 just lambaste that Sportsmans Guide 8mm JS ammo. Told people it was Junk & not to use it in the FG-42 guns. But to be out of speck that bad.. wow
Thats it, I buy no new Romanian Commercial ammo with out comparing it up against Tried and true Surplus..

Thanks again, for going ahead and testing the Waters, Its always the Pioneers who take the arrows..

 

[ztnoo]

DoggyDaddy,
Wow, that's really solid, profound, heads up info you provided. When one reads the reviews on the ammo below the description and pricing info in the link you provided, you have to wonder why they are even attempting to sell this stuff. 9 of 11 reviews were absolutely negative, describing the same type of problems you encountered. Why would a retailer who is reading product reviews and aware of feedback posted on an item of this nature, continue to offer this stuff? If its out of spec and you can't chamber it, there's absolutely no plausible justification for offering this for sale. I think it could be described it as incompetence, bordering on criminality.
Just one man's opinion......

I still would like to hear what all the rest of you 8 x 57 mm guys are using and your reasons for utilizing a particular brand or manufacturer.

Thanks,
Steve

 

[indy1919a4]

Just to show the difference in these rounds, look at the neck of the rounds ... The round on the left is the 8x57mm JS the round on the Right is a normal God fearing 7.92x57mm round

 

[mkgr22]

Well, do NOT buy the stuff in the green boxes (and I suspect Hot Shot may be the same). It's sold as 8x57 JS and the rounds are way out of spec. They won't even chamber. Visual comparison to surplus Romanian and Turk and Yugo made it apparent that the cases are probably a good millimeter longer. I went back and read the reviews on Sportsman's Guide (after I bought a box to try) and they all say the same thing pretty much. And to think, a friend and I were going to buy a case of the stuff at the 1500! Glad we didn't.

This is it: 20 rds. 8mm Mauser 8x57mm JS 170 Grain FMJ Ammo - 283126, 8mm Ammo at Sportsman's Guide

*Edit* After some googling, it appears that the Hot Shot ammo is okay. Doesn't appear to have the out of spec issue.

Jim, do you have a micrometer to determine the diameter of the bullet in these rounds? In Indy1919's photo below, the projectile does look "thicker". But the main problem looks to be that the case shoulder is too far forward.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Jim, do you have a micrometer to determine the diameter of the bullet in these rounds? In Indy1919's photo below, the projectile does look "thicker". But the main problem looks to be that the case shoulder is too far forward.

According to my micrometer it's .321 (probably close enough to standard .323), but I agree with you... the problem is with the case, not the projectile. These rifles headspace on the shoulder, don't they?