VW Scandal. How Does this Happen?

[findingZzero]

The whole story isn't in. This makes no sense. The truth will out. Why risk so much?
Anyone know if VW manipulated the software in Germany as well?

 

[T.Lex]

I'm sorry, I've only [strike]seen[/strike] ignored the headlines. What happened? I figured it was just eco-fearmongering.

 

[CountryBoy19]

I'm sorry, I've only [strike]seen[/strike] ignored the headlines. What happened? I figured it was just eco-fearmongering.

Synopsis as I've heard it (no idea on accuracy or truth): VW engines couldn't meet EPA emissions requirements or it was too costly to meet them. Rather than actually meet them, they massaged the car's onboard computer system/software to tell the EPA that it was, in fact, meeting emission standards even if it wasn't.

The way it was discovered was greenie-weenies in Europe wanted the cleaner burning American version of the car, some people wanted to see just how much cleaner the American version was so they could make a good case, so they did independent testing and discovered that even though the car's computer says the American car is running cleaner, there was no real difference in the actual emissions between the 2 cars.

 

[T.Lex]

haha

Wow.

So, VW had a fake-cleaner USian version, but didn't bother making the same fake-cleaner mod in Europe, where, arguably, there is more of a market for it? That's got irony with a side of karma.

And at a different level, why does our testing system trust a car's SOFTWARE? I mean, shouldn't something labeled "emissions testing" actually... you know... "test" the level of "emissions"?

ETA:
After learning more about this, the EPA was testing actual emissions, but there was an extra device used to clean the emissions during testing that was disabled during normal use.

 

[HoughMade]

Believe it or not, until very recently, the U.S. had more stringent diesel emissions standards than Europe.

 

[findingZzero]

The software was designed to show reduced emissions triggered by lack of steering wheel movement during the emissions test. In actual driving conditions (wheel turning) the software switched to normal mode and emissions sky rocketed.

 

[steveh_131]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/23/business/international/volkswagen-diesel-car-scandal.html?_r=0

Volkswagen officials admitted to officials in the United States that diesel cars sold there were programmed to sense when emissions were being tested and to turn on equipment that reduced them. At other times, the cars had better fuel economy and performance, but produced as much as 40 times the allowed amount of nitrogen oxide, a pollutant that can contribute to respiratory problems including asthma, bronchitis and emphysema.

 

[steveh_131]

I say good on VW for making cars that rescue us from emissions testing tyranny.

 

[T.Lex]

Ahhh - so the programmers figured out how to future-hack the testing. Respect.

 

[findingZzero]

I'm sorry, I've only [strike]seen[/strike] ignored the headlines. What happened? I figured it was just eco-fearmongering.

Clean diesel ain't clean....
Let's see if the shoe falls on GM, Ford and Chrysler..

 

[steveh_131]

Ahhh - so the programmers figured out how to future-hack the testing. Respect.

I'd like to give them a high-five.

 

[JettaKnight]

The software was designed to show reduced emissions triggered by lack of steering wheel movement during the emissions test. In actual driving conditions (wheel turning) the software switched to normal mode and emissions sky rocketed.

Do you have any references? I'd love to investigate this further for my own edification.

When I first heard this my first reaction was one of mixed admiration for VW engineers to pull this off in software. My guess is they had fun with this challenge - I would, but there's no way I'd forgo my ethics to be involved in that project.

Like it or not, emissions regulations are the LAW and as such it's our ethical duty as engineers* to create designs that comply with those laws.

How does that code get into the ECU without someone blowing the whistle? There's got to be enough people with access to that software that someone not involved would have seen it and understood it. Plus, there's got to be at least some talk around the watercooler about this. Someone had to have some scruples. If I saw that sort of shenanigans going on at my company I'd be pissed. Here am I trying to do a good and honest job and there's this specter of a ****storm waiting to burst open when regulators find out about my company's maleficence. Walking out the door with a thumbstick in my pocket would be one thought in my mind.



* Doubly so Christians who are engineers.

 

[T.Lex]

When I first heard this my first reaction was one of mixed admiration for VW engineers to pull this off in software. My guess is they had fun with this challenge - I would, but there's no way I'd forgo my ethics to be involved in that project.

I suspect there was a meeting with the Project Lead, Engineering Lead, and at least 1 lawyer.

Lawyer (paraphrasing): Neat idea, Scotty (because of course, that's the engineer's nickname). We can justify it by saying it simply detects when the car is idling, so we can use maximum environmental devices at that time. Performance isn't an issue during idling. It is actually a feature.

(The feature thing came from the lawyer's hypothetical time, early in his career, with Microsoft.)

 

[ArcadiaGP]

CEO just resigned.

https://twitter.com/AFP/status/646701542167478272

 

[HoughMade]

I suspect there was a meeting with the Project Lead, Engineering Lead, and at least 1 lawyer.

Lawyer (paraphrasing): Neat idea, Scotty (because of course, that's the engineer's nickname). We can justify it by saying it simply detects when the car is idling, so we can use maximum environmental devices at that time. Performance isn't an issue during idling. It is actually a feature.

(The feature thing came from the lawyer's hypothetical time, early in his career, with Microsoft.)

That's your version.

My version ends with the lawyer screaming: "Are you insane? Why did you e-mail me the invite for this meeting?! Now there's a trail! We have phones for a reason, Gunter!"

 

[T.Lex]

As a transactions guy (now), I'm all about solutions.

As a litigator, you're all about evidence.

 

[steveh_131]

How does that code get into the ECU without someone blowing the whistle? There's got to be enough people with access to that software that someone not involved would have seen it and understood it. Plus, there's got to be at least some talk around the watercooler about this. Someone had to have some scruples. If I saw that sort of shenanigans going on at my company I'd be pissed. Here am I trying to do a good and honest job and there's this specter of a ****storm waiting to burst open when regulators find out about my company's maleficence. Walking out the door with a thumbstick in my pocket would be one thought in my mind.

You're not wrong. It's hard to want to maintain those ethics after getting ****** over by these emissions tests, but I still ultimately agree with you.

I'd like to believe that these guys were standing up to tyranny, but I'm guessing that they were under instructions from above and it had to do with profit margins, not freedom.

 

[T.Lex]

Seems like a good writeup here on how they figured it out:
How Two Dogged Clear Air Sleuths Exposed Massive VW Deceit | EWG

Spoiler alert: smells like sugar.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Martin Winterkorn resigns as Volkswagen CEO

 

[JettaKnight]

You're not wrong. It's hard to want to maintain those ethics after getting ****** over by these emissions tests, but I still ultimately agree with you.

I'd like to believe that these guys were standing up to tyranny, but I'm guessing that they were under instructions from above and it had to do with profit margins, not freedom.

OK, so let's go with emission reduction laws are tyranny.

A free market system works well when consumers are present with multiple buying options (e.g. many different cars) and are well informed as to make rational decisions. Consumers can't run their own emissions test so they must rely on either a governmental agency, the manufacturer or some other third party to provide them with information to be used in their decision making process. Some consumers weigh emissions more importantly than others, but all factors (power, comfort, economy, price, etc.) are a factor.

Here's a case where consumers were given false information, ergo, VW cheated their customers and their maleficence can be considered a violation of the free market system.