Venezuela is about to bite the dust...

[actaeon277]

 

[kiddchaos]

Venezuela is Fascist though. Yes and good riddance to that.

 

[KellyinAvon]

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/humanitar...y-defects-220503037--abc-news-topstories.html
Humanitarian aid trucks crossing into Venezuela 'incinerated,' as protesters clash, military defections

On Saturday evening, Colombian officials said that 285 people had been injured in the day's border confrontations -- 37 of them hospitalized. At least 60 members of the Venezuelan military defected on Saturday, seeking refuge in Colombia, the officials said.

In all, at least 23 members of the Venezuelan Armed Forces fled to Colombia, according to that country's migration agency.
Two trucks carrying humanitarian vehicles were burned on the bridge, according to the migration agency.

Starving people with serious medical issues are having what they desperately need burned by the thugs of the people who caused them to be starving and sick.

BugI02 mentioned humanitarian airdrops. Humanitarian daily rations (HDRs) are something the USAF knows how to drop. There is still the problem of getting the aid into the right hands. If there was a Free Venezuelan Military (meeting all the requirements to be lawful combatants, reporting chain to a recognized entity, individuals exercising command authority, uniforms/insignia) this would make things a lot cleaner.

This is the AOR (Area of Operational Responsibility) of SOUTHCOM (US Southern Command). The Air Component is 12th Air Force out of Davis-Mothan AFB, AZ. Operating in a theater where stuff is really screwed up (different entities from DoD, State Dept, DEA, Coast Guard, CIA, FBI who don't like each other) is nothing new here.

I was at a BLUE FLAG (theater-level command and control) exercise at 12th AF where the scenario was a shooting war was underway. It had Spec Ops forces calling close air support (CAS) from horseback. Then a humanitarian operation cranks up in the same AOR. The adversary in the shooting war ends up being on our side of the humanitarian operations.

That was in December 2000.

 

[T.Lex]

That was in December 2000.

Everything old, is new again!

 

[Dead Duck]

They can keep em.

Univision anchor Jorge Ramos and members of his team have been detained in Caracas, Venezuela after disputed President Nicolas Maduro "didn't like the questions" they were asking during an interview, the network tweeted Monday night.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/univision-anchor-jorge-ramos-team-detained-in-venezuela-network-says

 

[bwframe]

Ruh Roe...

Journalist Jorge Ramos, Univision Crew Reportedly Detained in Caracas


Journalist Jorge Ramos...

 

[Libertarian01]

A very interesting and informative article on the "bridge" that was blocked.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/venezuela-bridge-aid-pompeo-1.5018432

Oh, wait... The bridge has ALWAYS been blocked! It has never been open to traffic!

In other words, the US and allies put supplies for a photo op near a bridge that has always been closed. From another article the two (2) nearest bridges to the north and south of this one are for foot traffic only, so again possibly near the worst location to actually ship large quantities of humanitarian supplies in.

This isn't saying Maduro didn't put extra barriers in place, he did. And this isn't saying there is no help there for people. But it does look like we put supplies in a lousy situation knowing it would be problematic in order to spin the story much worse against Maduro than it is. The US govt wanted Maduro to have an easy location to block supplies from getting in, in my opinion. They can then spin this as easy justification for ramping up more aggressive action against him, thus building a case based on smoke and mirrors and not good reality.

Just a thought...

Regards,

Doug

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

How does getting involved in THEIR mess help us at all ?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Just like South Africa, I struggle why we should care (as a country, not as an individual). The people were ok with how things used to be, and then it came back to bite them in the butt. If it's such a big deal to them, do what our founders did, and cut out the cancer and set things right. I am steadfastly opposed to any US intervention into the self-created problems of any nation. Sure we can offer humanitarian aid, but it's not a requirement that we force the issue.

 

[KLB]

How can we police the world if we don't stick our noses into their business?

 

[Libertarian01]

How does getting involved in THEIR mess help us at all ?

It may not "help" us in a positive way, but it may(?) help is by avoiding a negative. A stable nation anywhere in the world contributes to overall stability, just as an unstable nation contributes to the spread of chaos. A nation mired in civil war, warlords, not unified by a central government can cause all sorts of negative consequences for the nations near it. This then can spread like the plague around the world affecting us in the end.

I'm not supporting the idea that we poke our noses in everyone's business and get involved. We should not. I am simply positing the idea that from a purely pragmatic point of view we do have a vested interest in seeing that governments remain stable and problems are squished when they are small, lest they become large.

Just like South Africa, I struggle why we should care (as a country, not as an individual). The people were ok with how things used to be, and then it came back to bite them in the butt. If it's such a big deal to them, do what our founders did, and cut out the cancer and set things right. I am steadfastly opposed to any US intervention into the self-created problems of any nation. Sure we can offer humanitarian aid, but it's not a requirement that we force the issue.

I repeat my "why we should care" from above. I would agree with South Africa as it was already a stable nation state that had a horrific human rights problem, but not a negative impact on the region, and thus us. However, if a nation is facing a severe humanitarian crisis the humanitarian aid can directly impact the chances of a humanitarian problem becoming a governmental stability problem. A nation overwhelmed with any sort of problem could collapse, thus causing chaos and a lack of stability in the region. This would have a negative impact on us.

Again, I am in agreement with both that we lead from example and not interference. I am only pointing out pragmatic, self-interest in helping others keep small problems from growing into large, overhwhelming ones.

Regards,

Doug

PS - Some of my thinking would change IF the lawful leadership of a country directly requested aid, but that is another matter.

 

[T.Lex]

Historically, I think US foreign policy has been at its best when it stands for the principles that form our own foundation: freedom, democracy, and capitalism.

Certainly, we haven't always been paragons of those virtues in our own history. But, IMHO, we are at our best when we are at least guided by those ideals.

For Venezuela, for a generation or so, they haven't wanted our help. Ok, fine. Leave us alone, we'll mostly leave you alone. But, we'll put aside some funds and resources to help those groups within your borders that stand (to the best we can tell) for our principles, too.

I will concede that my pollyanna simplification is difficult to put into practice with important strategic/economic partners (Saudi Arabia is an obvious example). But, we should only depart from those parameters for really good reasons.

Guaido appears to be aligned with our goals and interests. We should support him, to the extent we have the resources to do so.

I'm not sure that includes a shooting war, but that's up to the CINC.

 

[jwamplerusa]

This!!!

 

[jwamplerusa]

And really, our involvement needs to be no more than you want a free country, here's a firearm, here's x number of rounds, have at it; take your country back, earn your liberty and freedom. I'm presently ok with providing their young, infirm, and elderly with humanitarian aid.

For many of the migrants on our southern border, or those on Europe's southern approaches, I have the same position. The foregoing is of course with the caveat, don't turn the wrong direction (toward us).

 

[Dead Duck]

You guys are funny.
WE are not really there at all. WE are not helping them whatsoever. Whatever is going on there has nothing to do with US.























Crap they're still here...... OK.... Um....

It'syay otnay eallyray usyay. It'syay ethay Cyay Iyay Ayay.

 

[KG1]

A very interesting and informative article on the "bridge" that was blocked.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/venezuela-bridge-aid-pompeo-1.5018432

Oh, wait... The bridge has ALWAYS been blocked! It has never been open to traffic!

In other words, the US and allies put supplies for a photo op near a bridge that has always been closed. From another article the two (2) nearest bridges to the north and south of this one are for foot traffic only, so again possibly near the worst location to actually ship large quantities of humanitarian supplies in.

This isn't saying Maduro didn't put extra barriers in place, he did. And this isn't saying there is no help there for people. But it does look like we put supplies in a lousy situation knowing it would be problematic in order to spin the story much worse against Maduro than it is. The US govt wanted Maduro to have an easy location to block supplies from getting in, in my opinion. They can then spin this as easy justification for ramping up more aggressive action against him, thus building a case based on smoke and mirrors and not good reality.

Just a thought...

Regards,

Doug

Maybe we can get Venezuela to attack one of our destroyers with their non existent torpedo boats.

 

[T.Lex]

Maybe we can get Venezuela to attack one of our destroyers with their non existent torpedo boats.

Torpedo fuel can't melt destroyer beams.

 

[Ark]

The Venezuelan people voted for socialism, voted for gun confiscation, voted for nationalization (theft) of foreign oil companies, and are now living with the consequences of their decision. They bucked capitalism and the American way, this is what they got, and as far as I'm concerned we owe them nothing and I am vehemently opposed to any kind of military intervention. The fallout of socialism isn't worth one American soldier's life.

If the entire country gets set on fire and become refugees, dig trenches and lay barbed wire on the southern border. Let all the people from over the years who whined about American intervention and empire clean up the mess. Our economy is humming along nicely, and it's time for the American people to enjoy peacetime and investment at home.

 

[Libertarian01]

The Venezuelan people voted for socialism, voted for gun confiscation, voted for nationalization (theft) of foreign oil companies, and are now living with the consequences of their decision. They bucked capitalism and the American way, this is what they got, and as far as I'm concerned we owe them nothing and I am vehemently opposed to any kind of military intervention. The fallout of socialism isn't worth one American soldier's life.

If the entire country gets set on fire and become refugees, dig trenches and lay barbed wire on the southern boarder. Let all the people from over the years who whined about American intervention and empire clean up the mess. Our economy is humming along nicely, and it's time for the American people to enjoy peacetime and investment at home.

I understand where this thinking comes from, and I sympathize.

Yet it reminds me of a guy who preaches for gun control for 20+ years and pushes for restrictions on freedom, then one day becomes a victim of a crime. After that he wants to buy a gun and defend themselves. There are a lot of folks who would say, "Screw 'em! He wanted gun control so don't sell him any. All of a sudden he gets it, well too f'n bad."

I disagree.

When a person or persons see the error of their ways we don't ignore them or beat them up more. We help them to the best of our ability. When folks see their own error and come around they are far more powerful allies in the future.

That said I agree that there should be no military intervention. I also agree that whatever help we do give should not become a burden on us. This has been a contributing problem to our economy for far too long, helping others to our own detriment.

Just an opinion.

Regards,

Doug

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Just like South Africa, I struggle why we should care (as a country, not as an individual). The people were ok with how things used to be, and then it came back to bite them in the butt. If it's such a big deal to them, do what our founders did, and cut out the cancer and set things right. I am steadfastly opposed to any US intervention into the self-created problems of any nation. Sure we can offer humanitarian aid, but it's not a requirement that we force the issue.

Now you see what the pro-wall folks have been saying all along. You're making progress Kut!