Natural immunity left three friends dead and one in the hospital with double pneumonia for over a week, when a vaccine would have left them on their feet. (Statistically, that is ~94% true).
age
The age of blood letting and body humors is over.
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Vaccine coercion/bribery
- Thread starter Mgderf
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The age of blood letting and body humors is over.
As is the age of believing our government officials tell us the truth and have our best interests in mind.
Pick your poison and stop trying to dictate which poison others prefer. You have no more proof that the vaccine would have saved your friends than I do proof it wouldn't have. It is 100% faith (in the media and the government lol) regardless of how strongly you attempt to convince yourself that you're the smarter one.
If you honestly believed the vaccine would protect you, you wouldn't feel the need to preach it's importance to others.
First, yes there's a metric butt ton of data to support the efficacy of the current batch of vaccines. I'm not sure if you're just being argumentative or what.
Second, this whole thread is either a bunch of preaching one way or another is it not? There's a (very) few number of people saying, "yes, these vaccines are a good thing", and a large number of folks saying, "the govt says it's good, so it must be bad."
Third, I do feel protected, but (a) I don't want anyone else to needlessly die from this, (b) the sooner it's reduced to a background issue the sooner the U.S. And world economy can get back to 100% and I (and most people at large) see vaccines as the most pragmatic way to do that.
Did they not lie to us? Did they not conspire to eliminate speech they didn't like? They didn't do everything they could to make this look worse? Who the heck is saying it is a "grand conspiracy"? Not me. That said, did big tech not use their worldwide power to control the narrative on this? Did the face of science not lie many times? Did they do everything in their power to stop dissenting scientists from bribery, to coercion, to character assignation?
There is no butt ton of data on the long term effects of the vaccine. The possibility exists that down the road these vaccines could have very serious side effects. My wife has had it, my daughter, my step mother, a handful of friends and many previous coworkers have had it. I use their experiences to determine my opinion on whether the risk of the virus outweighs the risk of the vaccine. It does not to me and I should be allowed to make that decision for myself.
I've not reached the decision that the vaccine is bad. I've reached the decision that it isn't worth the risk. The fact that is is being pushed so heavily makes it that much more suspect. The media nor the government are going to convince people by constantly repeating that same ******** over and over. The people that trick works on have already voted for Biden and gotten their vaccine.
If it's worth the risk to you, then by all means get the vaccine. Like I said, my father did and I don't blame him, fault him or question his decision. It would sure be nice if everyone were allowed that latitude but unfortunately we have some who believe they know what they don't actually know and that everyone who doesn't believe what they believe are fools.
This relentless push is not going to persuade people. If I'm making a decision which could have life or death consequences I am neither looking to the media nor the government for advice. They've both long since proven themselves untrustworthy.
To put it nicely, I feel that believing what they are pushing and accepting it at face value it is nothing more than seeking comfort by avoiding the unknown. If it goes bad these folks will have their monsters to blame it on so it's basically a no lose position assuming the vaccine doesn't kill them.
The vaccine protects the recipient, not others. These attempts to guilt people, trick people or bribe people to get it only make the division worse.
I don't believe vaccine reluctance is from fear of morbidities arising from it. It's my opinion based on "lock down" behavior that enormous numbers of the general population (see the age demographics regarding vaccination) are beyond weary being told they're all going to contract an extremely contagious fatal disease and die an excruciatingly agonizing death immobilized on a ventilator while loved ones will be prohibited from visiting them.
To date, 0.18% of the entire US population succumbed to Wuhan Virus, and that includes inflation of deaths from very questionable "cause of death" policies (e.g. if someone suffered fatal blunt force trauma in a traffic collision, but had been diagnosed with Wuhan a week earlier, they died from Wuhan). You get what you reward. With Federal $$$ flowing for every recorded Wuhan fatality, you get Wuhan fatalities with all manner of creative bookkeeping to collect the reward. Shades of the Vietnam War Body Count metrics. The total cumulative death rate is the same as the 2020 per capita death rate from cancer. In other words, you had the same probability of dying from cancer in 12 months (2020) as you did from Wuhan in 18 months (2020 - Jun 2021). Cancer is a scourge 1.5 times worse than Wuhan and it continues at the same rate unabated. Convincing people to change lifestyle practices to reduce cancer risk is equally Sisyphean. Cajoling a 25 year old in good health they need a Wuhan vaccination has an enormous probability of falling on deaf ears.
The primary Wuhan risk is to those with significantly compromised health and immune systems, especially those with cardio-pulmonary compromise. The one fatality I know personally was a lifelong severe asthma sufferer. Compound that with extremely morbid obesity, hypertension. and Type II diabetes. While tragic, her hospitalization and succumbing after contracting it was no big shock to me. Was told by the medical folks her death was a typical one. Convincing those who have exceptionally low risk of even presenting any significant symptoms they need to be vaccinated is a Sisyphean Task. The university parties and Spring Break atmosphere defying school and local government "lock down" orders is emblematic of this attitude. Huge parties of high school and college age were rampant at the wealthy mansions in Southern California during all of 2020 - in spite of efforts by LA County authorities to stop them.
To date, 0.18% of the entire US population succumbed to Wuhan Virus, and that includes inflation of deaths from very questionable "cause of death" policies (e.g. if someone suffered fatal blunt force trauma in a traffic collision, but had been diagnosed with Wuhan a week earlier, they died from Wuhan). You get what you reward. With Federal $$$ flowing for every recorded Wuhan fatality, you get Wuhan fatalities with all manner of creative bookkeeping to collect the reward. Shades of the Vietnam War Body Count metrics. The total cumulative death rate is the same as the 2020 per capita death rate from cancer. In other words, you had the same probability of dying from cancer in 12 months (2020) as you did from Wuhan in 18 months (2020 - Jun 2021). Cancer is a scourge 1.5 times worse than Wuhan and it continues at the same rate unabated. Convincing people to change lifestyle practices to reduce cancer risk is equally Sisyphean. Cajoling a 25 year old in good health they need a Wuhan vaccination has an enormous probability of falling on deaf ears.
The primary Wuhan risk is to those with significantly compromised health and immune systems, especially those with cardio-pulmonary compromise. The one fatality I know personally was a lifelong severe asthma sufferer. Compound that with extremely morbid obesity, hypertension. and Type II diabetes. While tragic, her hospitalization and succumbing after contracting it was no big shock to me. Was told by the medical folks her death was a typical one. Convincing those who have exceptionally low risk of even presenting any significant symptoms they need to be vaccinated is a Sisyphean Task. The university parties and Spring Break atmosphere defying school and local government "lock down" orders is emblematic of this attitude. Huge parties of high school and college age were rampant at the wealthy mansions in Southern California during all of 2020 - in spite of efforts by LA County authorities to stop them.
There is little to no data from truly independent sources. The data you so love is from the very same parties trying to force the vaccine on the people.
Guess you didnt see that Israel has now dropped the efficacy rate of the Pfizer vaccine from 95% to 63%? I imagine when it's all said and done the efficacy rate will be along the lines of the regular flu shot.
To avoid being a hypocrite, I should spell out that while I personally distrust the vaccine, as phylodog said, I don't have anything against people who make the decision to get vaccinated. My 78 year old father and his wife both got vaccinated and I feel it was the right decision for them. They're both in the target age range and both have comorbidities that made their chances very poor if they contracted the virus. I feel it's a personal decision. If the vaccine is as efficacious as they say, then my not being vaccinated doesn't impact anyone else, so leave me alone.
That's what they want you to think.
You are overlooking the fact that (the following numbers have a late 2020 source date) an estimated 30% (RoK estimate) to 40% (Fauci) of cases will be asymptomatic, and of total cases 80% will have mild to moderate symptoms requiring no special care (WHO)
There are obviously fairly large multiples of officially recognized cases that will not have been captured in the data. That combined with the vaccinated population will certainly be enough for herd immunity (60% to 70% based on the range given for the R0 )
I believe you cited a version of this yourself. Those that believed Trump was literally Hitler did not need a central control telling them what to do. Anything and everything was allowable to stop 'Hitler' and individual true believers did whatever they could, no overt conspiracy necessary
Remember the reports early on that the number of infected could be an order of magnitude more than had tested positive. So I think we could reasonably suspect that a lot more people had covid and didn't know it, than were ever tested as positive. And what we're told now about natural immunity, if you had covid with symptoms, you have some immunity to it now. And it's probably long lived.
Wait. Are you saying that these friends of yours were reinfected? To have natural immunity they'd have to have recovered from covid once. And then to die or be in the hospital from covid again, they'd have to be reinfected. That's extremely rare. Unless they were reinfected with a mutated virus like the delta variant. And there's not great efficacy data on the current vaccines being better than natural immunity for that. So I'd appreciate if you could explain WTF you're talking about.
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