Use of radios and cell phones

[MRP2003]

I was told that it is illegal to use radios or cell phones while you are hunting to talk to others near by that are also hunting. I was told that you could not call or radio someone else nearby to let them know that you saw a deer heading their way or which way a deer went via electronic communication.

Is this true?

 

[Willie]

No, it is not true...

 

[Hookeye]

It is against the P&Y/B&C rules of fair chase IIRC.

 

[Willie]

It is against the P&Y/B&C rules of fair chase IIRC.

From the B and C Site...:

For the purpose of entry into the Boone and Crockett Club’s® records, North American big game harvested by the use of the following methods or under the following conditions are ineligible:

I. Spotting or herding game from the air, followed by landing in its vicinity for the purpose of pursuit and shooting;
II. Herding or chasing with the aid of any motorized equipment;
III. Use of electronic communication devices to guide hunters to game, artificial lighting, electronic light intensifying devices (night vision optics), sights with built-in electronic range-finding capabilities, thermal imaging equipment, electronic game calls or cameras/timers/motion tracking devices that transmit images and other information to the hunter;
IV. Confined by artificial barriers, including escape-proof fenced enclosures;
V. Transplanted for the purpose of commercial shooting;
VI. By the use of traps or pharmaceuticals;
VII. While swimming, helpless in deep snow, or helpless in any other natural or artificial medium;
VIII. On another hunter’s license;
IX. Not in full compliance with the game laws or regulations of the federal government or of any state, province, territory, or tribal council on reservations or tribal lands

From P AND Y...

[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]The Rules of Fair Chase[/FONT]


[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]
The term “Fair Chase” shall not include the taking of animals under the following conditions:

• [FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Helpless in a trap, deep snow or water, or on ice.[/FONT]
  
• [FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]From any power vehicle or power boat.[/FONT]
  
• [FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]By “jacklighting” or shining at night.[/FONT]
  
• [FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]By the use of any tranquilizers or poisons.[/FONT]
  
• [FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]While inside escape-proof fenced enclosures.[/FONT]
  
• [FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]By the use of any power vehicle or power boats for herding or driving animals, including use of aircraft to land alongside or to communicate with or direct a hunter on the ground.[/FONT]
  
• [FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]By the use of electronic devices for attracting, locating or pursuing game or guiding the hunter to such game, or by the use of a bow or arrow to which any electronic device is attached with the exception of lighted nocks and recording devices that cast no light towards the target and do not aid in rangefinding, sighting or shooting the bow.[/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]
  
• [FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Any other condition considered by the Board of Directors as unacceptable.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]The fair chase concept does, however, extend beyond the hunt itself; it is an attitude and a way of life based in a deep-seated respect for wildlife, for the environment, and for other individuals who share the bounty of this vast continent’s natural resources.[/FONT]


[/FONT]

 

[Hookeye]

Yup, binocs and hand signals..............

 

[Willie]

Of course these are THEIR "rules of fair chase" for entry into their books. If one chooses not to enter their book then they are not bound by these rules. It is up to us as individual hunters to decide for ourselves what is and what isn't fair chase for ourselves - in accordance with our game laws.

Example is - Neither organization addresses baiting as being an unfair method of hunting.

Also P & Y changes their rules every now and then.

Example - Once they had to approve compound bows as being a bow under their classification. Then they said bows over 65% let off were not really bows for their classification. Then they said OK, any let off is OK. Even allowed 65+% let off kills in retroactively Then they said no electronics on the arrows.. Then they said Ok, now you can use lighted nocks.

They are not really the defining group in what is and what isn't fair chase - we are. They bend to what the average Joe Bowhunter uses and does.

 

[tallend]

There are 6 members of our hunting group---3 have had heart attacks(one with pacemaker)--all are 60 or over---ATT&T cell phones are worthless in the area we hunt---so,we all have "walkie talkies",and a base unit----------JUST IN CASE-----------we checked with he local CO---he said "no rules against having them"
As a safety measure for all of us----------------legal or not---WE WILL USE THEM

tallend

 

[Farmritch]

I can tell you walkie talkies are unlawful to possess in Michigan while hunting.
I thought I also read the same for Indiana years back

 

[Hookeye]

They are a private group, and can define whatever the hell they want. Screw what Joe Bowhunter does. If they didn't like the 65% letoff rule then they should have started their own group.......and some did, yay Buckmasters (you all look just peachy with a scarf). They want P&Y status......but don't want to play by the P&Y rules.
Personally I think it total BS.

What next.................P&Y threatened with Ferguson riots for not including X bows?

People suck.

Pisses me off how P&Y caves to outside pressure.

 

[Hookeye]

Before the rules changed I heard many claim that if they shot a booker they'd lie about their bow, or lighted sight/nock.
And these weren't all total rednecks...........some had other big game animals to their credit, had been around, were of decent financial status.
Yeah yeah, talk is cheap. Dunno if any over followed through with such claims, but if they ever did and I knew about it I'd bust their arse.

The willingness to lie on an affidavit.

That's like cheating on your wife...........oh waits, that socially acceptable nowadays.

No wonder I shoot in my backyard, or go with one or two close buds to ranges/shops. Might have said this before.............people suck.

They remind me of it day after day after day.

 

[Willie]

They caved for MONEY...

G. Fred Asbell at the First National Bowhunter Conference on why P & Y chose 65% let off - "The Pope and Young Club chose the 65% let-off as the maximum allowable for compound bows. The intent was to set a limit, beyond which a bow departed from being a hand-held, hand-drawn weapon that enjoyed primitive status.

But, it also seemed foolish to attempt to turn back the clock, and to disallow what everyone was already shooting. At the time of the Pope and Young Club fair chase amendment, 65% let-off was the upper edge of what was being manufactured and sold on a large scale. A few bows were being offered above that level, although most were experimental.

We became aware that some were experimenting with let-offs above 90% (which were felt at that time to be akin to a vertically held crossbow.) A majority of the compound bows being manufactured and sold at that time were below 65%. This is where the Pope and Young Club decided to draw a line."


AND NOW…


By M.R. James, Founder/Editor Emeritus


"AS A SENIOR MEMBER of the Pope and Young Club since 1980 and editor of three of the five P&Y record books published since 1975, I have been involved in various club activities for more than 32 years. I served on the board of directors from 1986 to 2000, including a 10-year stint as first vice president. I've been an official measurer since 1978. .............

As I see it, we must admit we made a mistake. Why? For years now, about 80 percent of compound bows sold have greater than 65-percent letoff. That means most bowhunters heading afield this fall will be toting bows that are P&Y "illegal," and none of the trophy animals they harvest will be eligible for the P&Y record book. In my opinion, something is definitely wrong when our record system excludes a majority of legally licensed bowhunters.


Not only does this deprive the Club of valuable revenue needed for many worthwhile projects, but worse, it means our club no longer fulfills a fundamental P&Y goal of serving as repository for bowhunting records of North American big game. And as long as a majority of this continent's bowhunters use equipment deemed unacceptable by Pope and Young, we will never collect truly representative trophy data. Without change, we'll soon be accepting and documenting a mere fraction of the total annual trophy harvest.

Given that fact, the Club's credibility is at stake. We can stubbornly stick to our 65-percent rule and exclude an increasing number of worthy trophies year after year, or we can accept the reality of a changing bowhunting world and realize that this particular equipment issue is not really significant."

 

[cschwanz]

We use radios for communication and safety (i.e "Im going to the truck", "I just shot a deer" "there is a trespasser near me", etc etc). I've not see anything in the Indiana laws that prevents the use of cell phones or radio use while hunting.

Everyone's opinion of "fair chase" may vary.

 

[Hookeye]

Some companies offered 65% let off bows, even when the norm was higher letoff.
Those who wanted to get into P&Y chose the right gear for it.
But many big animals fell to those who didn't plan ahead..............and advertising/manufacturing and other $ sure as sh*t played in the cave-in's roll.

It was their club, their rules.... and if they stood their ground more folks wanting in could have demanded more models of gear to meet the requirements.

But people suck, take the easy way...........and expect others to buckle due to teaming up with a lot of others of similar mindset.

And it works.


BTW, there are bows out there that still meet the old P&Y rules, and many choose them (old or new) for that and other aspects. I think they help one shoot better, with more back tension, and are more efficient (based on comparable versions with higher % letoff). Plus the draw cycles on them are easier on the body.

But you don't see them advertised on the Cable shows.......most folks bowhunting aren't in it for the record books. They just shoot and hunt. Then when they get a big one they want in................it's "after the fact". Catering to the immediate gratification folks once again.

P&Y isn't a new club, it's been around.................anybody paying attention could have planned ahead.

I think the P&Y change just shows that they want/need the money and that they lowered themselves to include a bunch of animals shot by lesser minds.

And that has reduced the noble status of those animals put in the book.

Very much like handing ribbons out for 6th and 7th place.

 

[Willie]

LOL...

The point is you stated - "It is against the P&Y/B&C rules of fair chase IIRC." and I say "So what?" AND P AND Y changes their "fair chase rules" depending on how much money they need to maintain their little club.. Sort of "evolving" like Obama does so often..

One does not need a lot of "back tension" while holding back 6 or less pounds with a trigger release aid. Shooting a tab or glove - yeah you'd better have a little poundage pulling on the string to get off of it properly.

"The Book" has become just a money maker and an ego stroker - for the club ....


and folks that want to see their name in a book.....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7aIf1YnbbU



.

 

[Hookeye]

Back tension- it is not the same as finger tension.

Not everybody who uses a bow to slay a deer is an archer.

To each his or her own.

 

[M4Madness]

LOL...
"The Book" has become just a money maker and an ego stroker - for the club ...

I had a buck entered into the P&Y record book in 1997. I then took a much, much better buck with my bow last year, and didn't even bother. Why pay $35 for my name in a book where it will be buried among thousands (or perhaps hundreds of thousands) of others?

 

[Hookeye]

I just want one, by recurve. After that I don't care.