United Air forcibly removes passenger on overbooked flight

[amboy49]

Seems they were a little rougher than you people think: Concussion, broken nose and lost 2 front teeth - if that is true, now what's your position?
I think the officer's identities should be released to the public domain ASAP

David Dao, 69, suffered a concussion, broken nose and damaged sinuses and lost two front teeth when he was dragged off a flight Sunday to make room for United personnel, lawyer Thomas Demetrio said. He said Dao has been released from the hospital and is staying in a "secure" location.

United Airlines passenger dragged off flight suffered concussion, broken nose

If the good Dr. is staying in a "safe place" how is he finding the ability to see all of the patients he claimed he had to see. Wasn't that the reason he gave as to why he couldn't get off the flight ? !

 

[Fargo]

I thought it was not that they sold too many seats, rather they had a full flight but needed to bump passengers for a crew to make it to their flight. If they didn't make it, they would likely have to cancel the flight. How much does it cost the airline to cancel a flight?

Reread the first 10 words of my paragraph you are responding to. The part about why it blew up. Whether it was because they overbooked or because they needed crew space doesn't matter to my point. If the populace in general wasn't having it shoved in their face that airlines routinely, proudly and willfully create this type of situation by double booking seats, they would like the feel a lot more sympathy to the airline when there was a real necessity.

 

[Fargo]

IFIFY

No, you didn't fix anything at all but feel free to carry-on thinking that you did. Kind of like in the resisting law-enforcement statute, that forcibly word is the really important one.

 

[churchmouse]

 

[Rookie]

 

[actaeon277]

It's not "shoved down their faces".
Passengers are free to travel by ship, airplane, and car.
They can even start their own airline.

 

[Fargo]

It's not "shoved down their faces".
Passengers are free to travel by ship, airplane, and car.
They can even start their own airline.

If you are going to quote me, maybe you should actually quote the words I actually said? Maybe you should even quote the entire sentence, or even the paragraph that it is set in the context in? If you did, you might see that I was referring to the way that the airlines, and their employees on this board, are currently trumpeting that it is just find and dandy for them to do their business in this fashion. It had nothing to do with not having other options.

As it is, you don't even have the four words you quoted right.

 

[KMaC]

I predict that air travel will become MUCH more enjoyable and efficient thanks to the efforts of Dr. Dao. Well, maybe not. Every plane is gonna have at least one SJW standing up to the man and making me wait.

 

[Fargo]

All, I think I'm going to take a break from INGO and till after Easter. I am beginning to find myself irritated and tempted to say impolite things to people that I like and respect and there is just no good reason for that in what should just be a friendly discussion. I hope you all have a blessed holy week and happy Easter. Joe

 

[Gluemanz28]

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[Libertarian01]

DANG IT.
I was going to stay out of this thread.

GOTCHA!!!

 

[actaeon277]

If you are going to quote me, maybe you should actually quote the words I actually said? Maybe you should even quote the entire sentence, or even the paragraph that it is set in the context in? If you did, you might see that I was referring to the way that the airlines, and their employees on this board, are currently trumpeting that it is just find and dandy for them to do their business in this fashion. It had nothing to do with not having other options.

As it is, you don't even have the four words you quoted right.

If I was quoting you, I would have hit the little button called "Reply With Quote".
Instead, I asked a question, similar, but different than your statement.


Looking back, I musta had your statement in my head.
But accessing it on my portable device, means I don't flip from screen to screen as well.

 

[actaeon277]

Okay. How about this.

I often go on vacation to the Caribbean.
I rent out my house while I'm gone.

But sometime, there's a hurricane, and I can't go.
So, I write in a "weather condition" that says, if I am unable to go to the Caribbean due to a hurricane, that I can stay in my house, and the renter has to find another residence.
I put in that the person being denied my house will get twice the money he paid.

So, I use this contract every year. And a couple times, I use the "weather condition", with no problems, other than maybe some hurt feelings.
Then, this year, the renter huffs and puff. Throws a tantrum.
So I call the local "5-0".
While extricating the renter, they bang his head on the doorway.
He claims he was unconscious even though security cameras show him holding his camera.
He gets a doc to show he has a concussion.

And now... IT'S MY FAULT?

Maybe he didn't understand the document some claim... BUT HE'S A DOCTOR.
The police shouldn't have used forces... but he refuses to leave the house, and made them use force. They even tried "pretty please" first.
Then people say "He paid his money"... yes, but it was refunded, with the penalty.

So now, everyone's on a witch hunt against me.
And wants to throw out contracts, because of this incidence.


And where am I getting this wrong?

 

[actaeon277]

GOTCHA!!!

View attachment 54876

I know.
I honestly tried to be a good boy.

You should have seen me when I was leaving my sub, flying from Rome to New York.
And two little old ladies wouldn't let anyone sit in the seat between them, even though they hadn't paid, and the flight was full.
Guess who decided to give up his seat, and jump right in between them.
That person got a few drinks bought for him.

 

[actaeon277]

If you are going to quote me, maybe you should actually quote the words I actually said? Maybe you should even quote the entire sentence, or even the paragraph that it is set in the context in? If you did, you might see that I was referring to the way that the airlines, and their employees on this board, are currently trumpeting that it is just find and dandy for them to do their business in this fashion. It had nothing to do with not having other options.

As it is, you don't even have the four words you quoted right.

It's not "shoved down their faces".
Passengers are free to travel by ship, airplane, and car.
They can even start their own airline.

Reread the first 10 words of my paragraph you are responding to. The part about why it blew up. Whether it was because they overbooked or because they needed crew space doesn't matter to my point. If the populace in general wasn't having it shoved in their face that airlines routinely, proudly and willfully create this type of situation by double booking seats, they would like the feel a lot more sympathy to the airline when there was a real necessity.

Okay, I'll bite.

If the populace in general wasn't having it shoved in their face that airlines routinely, proudly and willfully create this type of situation

Since you seem to want me to ask a question about your statement....
(Or is it make a statement about your statement)...
How are they having it "shoved in their face that ...."?
Are those same people unable to read, or understand the contract?
Was the contract developed after the flight was booked?
Did the government, or a private agency make them buy against their wishes?
Are citizens in this country unable to make decisions themselves, and instead need the government to make things "fair"?

 

[actaeon277]

My concern is that by airlines regularly overbooking they are in fact knowingly offering a service to some people that they will NOT be able to provide, then causing potentially great harm to the person denied service.

That great harm could mean anything from missing work and possibly losing a job to being late to say your last goodbyes to a loved one. While some may argue that the passenger was guilty for not planning, sometimes the planning is forced last minute, like, "Son, mom is not doing well here in LA. You may want to get here ASAP." When this happens a person may get online and book the best flight they can AND pay for it instantly. Once that money is accepted there should be very few legitimate reasons for a person to be denied service.

So my thought is to not allow overbooking - period. If a person doesn't show, they can still be charged, thus the airline loses zero (0) revenue. OR if we don't like that, simply repeal the Federal Arbitration Act of 1925 and allow more clients to sue in a real court with real judges and real juries, not a forced arbitration that favors the business.

Before anyone says, "That's not very libertarian" I will argue the hell it is! I believe in the FREE MARKET! In the FREE MARKET when you knowingly sell a service you cannot provide that is cheating, AKA FRAUD (thanks Fargo). Fraud has repercussions in the FREE MARKET.

And no matter how the law reads today regarding the thickness of the legal ice the airline industry is standing on, all it takes is Senator Warren or Senator Franken to propose new legislation and get it passed by outraged colleagues. While people will b***h about this, this is why changes are made. When people get their nose rubbed into how unfair a situation is, they usually demand change. Sometimes they get it.

Regards,

Doug

Yes it does.
And people can stop going to airlines that do that more than others.
They will get the hint.

Of course, airlines start running more empty seats, rates may go up.
Then everyone would be complaining about that.

 

[actaeon277]

It's not "shoved down their faces".
Passengers are free to travel by ship, airplane, and car.
They can even start their own airline.

I would like to quote this.
As mentioned, "in a free market".....
In a free market, people would stop using Delta, United, and Southwest.

 

[Fizzerpilot]

Actually, overbooking is not knowingly selling something that you cannot provide. Statistically, they are only overselling enough seats to fill the vacancies left by those who are are no shows. It is a statistical calculation.

 

[jamil]

Okay. How about this.

I often go on vacation to the Caribbean.
I rent out my house while I'm gone.

But sometime, there's a hurricane, and I can't go.
So, I write in a "weather condition" that says, if I am unable to go to the Caribbean due to a hurricane, that I can stay in my house, and the renter has to find another residence.
I put in that the person being denied my house will get twice the money he paid.

So, I use this contract every year. And a couple times, I use the "weather condition", with no problems, other than maybe some hurt feelings.
Then, this year, the renter huffs and puff. Throws a tantrum.
So I call the local "5-0".
While extricating the renter, they bang his head on the doorway.
He claims he was unconscious even though security cameras show him holding his camera.
He gets a doc to show he has a concussion.

And now... IT'S MY FAULT?

Maybe he didn't understand the document some claim... BUT HE'S A DOCTOR.
The police shouldn't have used forces... but he refuses to leave the house, and made them use force. They even tried "pretty please" first.
Then people say "He paid his money"... yes, but it was refunded, with the penalty.

So now, everyone's on a witch hunt against me.
And wants to throw out contracts, because of this incidence.


And where am I getting this wrong?

First. Let's talk about blame and about what could have done by each party for this not to go viral.

1. Dr Douchebag could have been an adult about this and left the plane when he was asked to leave, and especially when Officer Blart showed up. If he'd have just complied, this thread wouldn't exist because there'd have been no video to go viral.

2. Officer Blart could have been more professional. If he has to remove a passenger by force, he should be able to subdue him without having to smash his face and and drag him out cave-man style. Had the security officers handled this more professionally, there may have been videos posted to the internet, but it probably wouldn't have gone viral as it did, and this thread would likely not exist.

3. United didn't overbook the flight. Passengers weren't prevented from boarding. They were seated. Four seats were needed to get crew to Louisville for a flight THE NEXT DAY. This wasn't a routine bumping of passengers. This was an "oh ****! We don't have a crew for that flight out of SDF tomorrow!". A meme would be appropriate here, but rather than taking the time, I'll just invoke the old saying, "poor planning on your part does not automatically constitute an emergency on mine!" Once you're seated, yah, it's on the airline if they have to kick people off the plane to make room for crew! If the airline would have realized they needed those 4 seats just minutes earlier, they'd have bumped 4 passengers BEFORE boarding, and this thread wouldn't exist because this wouldn't have gone viral.

So, all actors share blame for this going viral. So who is ultimately responsible? United. Officer Blart in a sense is acting as an agent for the Airline.

So where the analogy goes wrong is where it breaks down. Add in the factor that the Weather Channel was warning about the Hurricane all week, yet you let the tenants in your house anyway. And after they were settled in you demanded they get out because the Hurricane ruined your vacation. Another breakdown, there's no realistic way in the analogy to account for the fact that you're not evicting everyone, you're evicting just four of dozens of people, and offering them incentives to volunteer to leave.

 

[dnurk]

A little perspective does a whole lot of good.
https://thepilotwifelife.wordpress....thoughts-from-a-pilot-wife-about-flight-3411/

Stopped reading when she brought in 9/11. TSA And airport security (and the billions made by the contractors who supply them) continue to feed off of this fear.