United Air forcibly removes passenger on overbooked flight

[seedubs1]

Concur. Lots has changed.

It just seems to be the battle cry of those who stand in opposition these days. See it all to frequently. I have a nephew that does it just to irritate me. He is lucky to live in another state.

If you read through this thread it is pretty easy to guess age groups. That is not a knock just an observation. My age group grew up in a time that smarting off to LEO earned you a tune up. Might be seen as abusive these days but I will tell you it was rare we were verbal or physical with authority's. Say what you will.
They said move along and we pretty much did just that. But in this we were given some serious breaks by those same men when situations merit.

These days it really amazes me how brazenly disrespectful people are.

 

[Birds Away]

It just seems to be the battle cry of those who stand in opposition these days. See it all to frequently. I have a nephew that does it just to irritate me. He is lucky to live in another state.

If you read through this thread it is pretty easy to guess age groups. That is not a knock just an observation. My age group grew up in a time that smarting off to LEO earned you a tune up. Might be seen as abusive these days but I will tell you it was rare we were verbal or physical with authority's. Say what you will.
They said move along and we pretty much did just that. But in this we were given some serious breaks by those same men when situations merit.

These days it really amazes me how brazenly disrespectful people are.

Now everyone grows up believing they are something special. They believe their rights trump everyone else's. That's why you hear about pregnant women standing on a bus because young punks don't even think of giving up their seat. They need some tuning.

 

[indiucky]

 

[mom45]

I saw this on FB...not sure whose story is accurate, but it is possible that United is being unfairly thrown to the wolves.

United passenger traded drugs for gay sex with patient | Daily Mail Online.

We all know the media never reports anything just because it is a sensational story.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

I saw this on FB...not sure whose story is accurate, but it is possible that United is being unfairly thrown to the wolves.

United passenger traded drugs for gay sex with patient | Daily Mail Online

Even if this story was 100% true... does it make criticism against what United did unfair?

Do the hit-pieces against the passenger change what happened?

 

[mom45]

If the ticket defines reasons you may be asked to leave the plane and you buy the ticket on their terms, then you need to follow the terms. I wasn't there so I have no way of knowing why or how this turned as violent as it did. I don't believe it is fair to automatically assume United was the one who made it into what it was. He should have complied with the requests as the other passengers did. He was not singled out from what I understand but was randomly selected by the computer in the same manner as the other passengers who chose to comply.

 

[HoughMade]

I saw this on FB...not sure whose story is accurate, but it is possible that United is being unfairly thrown to the wolves.

United passenger traded drugs for gay sex with patient | Daily Mail Online.

We all know the media never reports anything just because it is a sensational story.

Further up in this thread, there is a link to a document that purports to contain stipulations of fact to this effect (I have no idea if the document is authentic). If it is true, there may be some relevance to his propensity to, shall we say, "act the fool", but overall, being a "bad guy" doesn't excuse anything else that went on that may have been wrong....but I maintain that he could have easily avoided this whole mess- if his brain would let him.

 

[BugI02]

Just thinking of my last flight. Had a limo pick us up over three hours before flight. Checked in well over two hours prior. Went through the indignity of the TSA. Dealt with getting some lunch at Midway Airport at noon. Walked to a distant waiting area. Did the boarding thing and got packed in like a sardine. Meanwhile, a thousand miles away my son in law drove an hour to the airport to pick us up.

I would have been very upset if I was thrown off the plane AFTER being seated. Reading through this thread I somewhat appreciate all arguments, but really, can't a better system be worked out?

Spec4, this is the better system. See the link I posted about how seldom Involuntary DBC was necessary out of 86 million people United carried, and how relatively few people even were asked to voluntarily give up a seat. The goal would always be to intercept those who won't be making the flight long before they are in the cabin, and in the vast majority of cases this is so. But there are going to be times when last minute adjustments are made and they are especially likely in the middle of chaotic events. Being on board is no magic talisman, you can still get removed and rebooked and this has to be at the airline's discretion. They need to run their business as they deem fit and you are free to take your business elsewhere

Just as an example, Southwest has a class of airfreight called NFG (Next Flight Guaranteed) that shippers pay a heavy premium for because of the guarantee embodied in the name. Southwest will pull you and/or your luggage to make sure that airfreight rides a particular flight. It is a business decision on their part that a robust and steady freight business is important to them, more important than the wishes of any particular passenger

 

[avboiler11]

Even without the future lawsuit, wouldn't it have been cheaper to put the employees in a limo and drive them to Louisville .

Almost certain the deadheading crew would not have had sufficient duty day for a 5 hour ground transport...if their collective bargaining agreements even would have permitted such a thing (my contract doesn't allow it). And even if they would have had enough duty AND their CBAs would have allowed a 5 hour ground shuttle, they probably would have had a lengthy crew delay the following day because of required minimum rest.

Bottom line: if that crew doesn't ride, then best case an airplane and hundreds of passengers run behind the entire next day causing dozens if not hundreds of misconnects, worst case a flight with 70-76 passengers the next day cancels due to lack of crew with all the tentacles that creates.

Would have been better to compensate an involuntarily bumped passenger AND get them a same-night flight into Indy, Lexington, Evansville or even Nashville with car service to SDF upon arrival.

...but that ship sailed...

 

[BugI02]

I haven't really followed this, as I rarely fly these days, but how did they decide THIS was the guy to be involuntarily removed? (Yes, I skipped to the end, so this may've been answered upthread.)

It varies, Lex. Things taken into account in the algorithm that leads to selection are typically frequent flyer status (do you spend lots of money with that airline), fare class (reimbursement is based on the face value of the ticket, the cheap seats are cheaper to DBC - economic decision), how quickly you can be accommodated on another flight to your destination (the compensation is lower if they can get you there within an hour of your original scheduled arrival, somewhat more for 2hrs+) whether pulling you would break up a family group or group traveling together and all else being equal, the inverse of your order of check-in (the last shall be first). Any or all of these could have figured in to this mans selection

 

[T.Lex]

It varies, Lex. Things taken into account in the algorithm that leads to selection are typically frequent flyer status (do you spend lots of money with that airline), fare class (reimbursement is based on the face value of the ticket, the cheap seats are cheaper to DBC - economic decision), how quickly you can be accommodated on another flight to your destination (the compensation is lower if they can get you there within an hour of your original scheduled arrival, somewhat more for 2hrs+) whether pulling you would break up a family group or group traveling together and all else being equal, the inverse of your order of check-in (the last shall be first). Any or all of these could have figured in to this mans selection

Hold up now.

It almost sounds like there's a process that was followed, but this guy didn't like the outcome.

It couldn't possibly be that non-complicated and rational.

 

[avboiler11]

 

[HoughMade]

Where's the "scream, yell and run down the aisle" instructions?

 

[ArcadiaGP]

United CEO Oscar Munoz: I’m sorry. We will fix this.

https://hub.united.com/united-expre...8629.html?utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral

 

[halfmileharry]

If the police give you a command it is best to comply. You can sort everything else out later. Failure to comply will almost always lead to bad things happening.

That's been my personal experience.

 

[BugI02]

I do not like the whole issue of overbooking a plane to maximize ones revenues. I can also understand the passengers issues with the flight crew. But once the local LEO arrived it is time to shut up, get up, and get moving.

There seems to be quite a bit of confusion about this concept, so if I may:

In this case, the aircraft operating the flight had 70 seats. Now airlines are some of the first adopters of big data because they have always had a relatively high amount of processing power in their reservations systems, so the records of many, many days of operating this same flight are analyzed to establish a 'pad'. That is the historic number of people holding a reservation on that flight leaving at that time who are not likely to actually utilize their reservation. There can be many reasons. Remember full fare tickets are fully refundable, so it may be that some people stand by for an earlier flight they can't get a confirmed seat on and if they get a seat, they do not use the confirmed seat on the later flight. People have been known to book seats on both an early and late flight so if they can wrap up their business in time and make the early flight they do, else they use the later reservation. There are many options when your decisions are not costing you money. It is not uncommon for people with frequent flyer status to stand by for a flight utilizing a larger aircraft with more first class seats because it will allow them to upgrade and ride up front. Whatever the reasons, in this example, let's say that this flight, although being booked to 70, will usually leave the gate with five empty seats. The 'pad' would likely be established at perhaps three seats (it will be a conservative determination) and so reservations will be allowed to book the a/c to its rated capacity plus the pad - in this case they could sell 73 seats. All other things being equal, this flight would still be unlikely to generate denied boardings and would likely still leave with a couple of open seats most days

Now jump to the day in question, where weather is causing delays and cancellations at O'hare. Now as flights cancel and surplus passengers begin piling up on the remaining flights, the pads are not readjusted on the fly, they are coded into the system. So reservations still allows 73 people to be targeted at a flight that only has 70 seats. But in this situation, all 73 are much more likely to show up and thus there likely will be three people denied boarding. The airline will solicit volunteers up to a certain pre-determined level of compensation which will be less than what they have to pay you if it is involuntary. Once the offer gets close to the price of involuntary DBC they are likely to go that route just to get it done

And there are a number of other situations that can result in someone getting the boot that don't involve crew movement. One example is 'change of guage', wherein a different airplane is substituted for a broken one and the new aircraft is smaller. Some peeps aren't going to have a chair when the music stops but there is nothing malicious about it

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I remember when adults didn't throw tantrums like 2 years olds...or at least they weren't lauded for it.

 

[T.Lex]

There seems to be quite a bit of confusion about this concept, so if I may:

In this case, the aircraft operating the flight had 70 seats. Now airlines are some of the first adopters of big data because they have always had a relatively high amount of processing power in their reservations systems, so the records of many, many days of operating this same flight are analyzed to establish a 'pad'. That is the historic number of people holding a reservation on that flight leaving at that time who are not likely to actually utilize their reservation. There can be many reasons. Remember full fare tickets are fully refundable, so it may be that some people stand by for an earlier flight they can't get a confirmed seat on and if they get a seat, they do not use the confirmed seat on the later flight. People have been known to book seats on both an early and late flight so if they can wrap up their business in time and make the early flight they do, else they use the later reservation. There are many options when your decisions are not costing you money. It is not uncommon for people with frequent flyer status to stand by for a flight utilizing a larger aircraft with more first class seats because it will allow them to upgrade and ride up front. Whatever the reasons, in this example, let's say that this flight, although being booked to 70, will usually leave the gate with five empty seats. The 'pad' would likely be established at perhaps three seats (it will be a conservative determination) and so reservations will be allowed to book the a/c to its rated capacity plus the pad - in this case they could sell 73 seats. All other things being equal, this flight would still be unlikely to generate denied boardings and would likely still leave with a couple of open seats most days

Now jump to the day in question, where weather is causing delays and cancellations at O'hare. Now as flights cancel and surplus passengers begin piling up on the remaining flights, the pads are not readjusted on the fly, they are coded into the system. So reservations still allows 73 people to be targeted at a flight that only has 70 seats. But in this situation, all 73 are much more likely to show up and thus there likely will be three people denied boarding. The airline will solicit volunteers up to a certain pre-determined level of compensation which will be less than what they have to pay you if it is involuntary. Once the offer gets close to the price of involuntary DBC they are likely to go that route just to get it done

And there are a number of other situations that can result in someone getting the boot that don't involve crew movement. One example is 'change of guage', wherein a different airplane is substituted for a broken one and the new aircraft is smaller. Some peeps aren't going to have a chair when the music stops but there is nothing malicious about it

The day Denny appeared in teal.

(BTW, to add to the "pad" idea, that calculus probably doesn't include urgent transportation of flight crews to accommodate the schedule changes caused by bad weather. Based on currently available information, the "bump" wasn't due to commercial overbooking, but flight operations. Figuring the crew of 4 was not part of the pad, then your calculation would yield 77 donkeys for 70 seats, with 4 of those donkeys being very special. Kinda remarkable that they got down to 71.)

 

[cobber]

.

Unconscious people to not continue to grasp their cell phone.

Carry on.

Perhaps the aviation police and UA employees should be compensated for the PTSD they suffered in the course of the incident... I'm feeling so bad for them now...

 

[BugI02]

Since we're digging up "troubled pasts"

Woman Claims She and Daughter With Autism Were Kicked Off United Airlines Flight - ABC News

Dude, there is a substantially similar mash-up available for any other domestic airline and quite a few internationals. I posted one about Delta upthread. ANY business will have unhappy customers, its just all about minimizing the numbers

Maybe all of these aggrieved parties should go on Twitter and Youtube or Facebook and *****. That'll show these evil faceless capitalist tools