UAW On Strike

[KokomoDave]

I guess I should've stayed in the military and retired and then went to work for an outfit but my mind wasn't right when it came time for re-enlistment. I went in the Nationalist Guard at 16. I had a REMF job as an armorer but I wanted adventure and went full time. Got hurt in training but stuck out my commitment until the end. I get a little stipend from the V.A. but it ain't much.

 

[Creedmoor]

Nope, and I didn't expect to. The idea of my ex-employer paying me anything when I no longer worked for them is a concept that is totally foreign to me. What I did get was great insurance, the ability to buy company stock at 15% below monthly average closing price and a 401(k) plan into which the company matched contributions from 6%-8%. I had 6%-10% auto-deposited, every check, good times (10%) and bad (6%).

BTW, kudos on going through the company training. I went to graduate school while working, also as a young father, which the company paid for as long as I got Bs or better. I graduated Magna *** laude (should have been summa *** laude except for that B in quantum electronics ), so the company did pay for everything. I have an idea of what you went through: no life for 2 1/2 years!

Good post, Thanks
Otis United Tech has education reimbursement.

The plus with earning a company paid pension is with most medium and large companies with one being prudent is you have all of those options available also. So at the end one easily can three and four fold your monthly checks.

Another problem is most in today's working world is they don't invest like you and others that are prudent do. They will work and end up with a SS check that's a 1/4 of what they could have been getting. Its a tough life living on a SS check.
You gotta pay yourself first.

 

[Ingomike]

Then why in 2007 did IBM stop the new employee pension and shift to a 401?
Would they not want to keep the best people still today?

Because the best people wanted control of their money, not a promise from a company that could just disappear like a fart in the wind.

A fixed pension check is a guaranty, a variable investment income 401 is not guaranteed monthly income.

You hope it is guaranteed as we are at the dawn of pension failings. The unfunded pensions of government crisis will bleed over into private sector. They just infused cash into 200 failing mostly Union pensions, with the teamsters getting the most money.

“The bailout will direct funds to more than 200 nearly insolvent multiemployer pension plans, which are established jointly by unions and the private companies that contract with them through collective bargaining agreements.”

 

[Creedmoor]

I guess I should've stayed in the military and retired and then went to work for an outfit but my mind wasn't right when it came time for re-enlistment. I went in the Nationalist Guard at 16. I had a REMF job as an armorer but I wanted adventure and went full time. Got hurt in training but stuck out my commitment until the end. I get a little stipend from the V.A. but it ain't much.

Mine loves the USMC.
I turned blue trying to talk mine into staying for 20, it was not gonna happen. I was told Pop's, I'm doing it for $22,000 a year and i'm gonna go and do it for 5 -7 times that for a few years.

 

[Creedmoor]

Because the best people wanted control of their money, not a promise from a company that could just disappear like a fart in the wind.



You hope it is guaranteed as we are at the dawn of pension failings. The unfunded pensions of government crisis will bleed over into private sector. They just infused cash into 200 failing mostly Union pensions, with the teamsters getting the most money.

“The bailout will direct funds to more than 200 nearly insolvent multiemployer pension plans, which are established jointly by unions and the private companies that contract with them through collective bargaining agreements.”

Not all Pension plans have failed. Nor will they all fail down the road.

https://www.pionline.com/pi-1000-largest-retirement-plans/2022-full-list

So you can control what your 401 investments make? Its a variable income.

Its silly to think that while earning a pension if one is available, one doesn't also invest in a 401K or Roth.
Me personally, I feel more comfortable with a few different streams of income at retirement.

 

[Ingomike]

Not all Pension plans have failed. Nor will they all fail down the road.

https://www.pionline.com/pi-1000-largest-retirement-plans/2022-full-list

So you can control what your 401 investments make? Its a variable income.

Its silly to think that while earning a pension if one is available, one doesn't also invest in a 401K or Roth.
Me personally, I feel more comfortable with a few different streams of income at retirement.

Nothing wrong with that but you keep beating the pension horse like it was the end all be all even though in a few posts you describe other options you get.

The economics of it all are putting stresses on pensions, many of which are underfunded. Of course the government pensions are almost not funded at all.

Pensions are a form of collective, as they are promises given by those that will not be around to fulfill them, funded by others, managed by others, and not in the control of the recipient. They are not an asset, cannot be inherited, rarely can they be used as collateral and the recipient has no control what they are invested in.

The best and brightest do not want that, they want the cash they can control…

 

[Creedmoor]

Because the best people wanted control of their money, not a promise from a company that could just disappear like a fart in the wind.



You hope it is guaranteed as we are at the dawn of pension failings. The unfunded pensions of government crisis will bleed over into private sector. They just infused cash into 200 failing mostly Union pensions, with the teamsters getting the most money.

“The bailout will direct funds to more than 200 nearly insolvent multiemployer pension plans, which are established jointly by unions and the private companies that contract with them through collective bargaining agreements.”

Why not offer both like some corporations do?
No, they got rid of pensions because they claimed it was to expensive.

I posted what the major pension funds have in them. The Elevator Industry was in the #180's on that list. With the small membership " 25,000" working and the what smaller numbers that are on retirement, I have zero fears that my checks will be cut off for lack of funds. That fund has been growing long before I started paying dues.
And if down the road 20 years of that did happen I still have my 401, an annuity account and SS coming in.

 

[oze]

I retired almost 6 years ago and did absolutely nothing for 1 year. I was going stir crazy so I decided to go find a job. Found one, 9 bucks an hour part time, but I loved it. It’s not a glamorous job but it gave me satisfaction, purpose. After about a year I went full time, then my wife retired and started going nuts at home so went back to part time. Been part time for almost a year and my wife just got an entry level job, part time. She told me last night that she loves working; and so do I.

My point is this. Some people just do not understand the value of work and all that is important to them is money. All my life, since I was 8, I worked. It’s who I am and what I enjoy. I take pride in my career and my current non-glamorous job. Even if I had a HUGE pension with enormous bennies, I’d still miss working. I guess it’s what you value most in life. I’d work more but my body is slowing down a bit. If I die while I am working, I’ll have a smile on my face.

That $6 and hour job for a retired person may be keeping them alive, and that is worth more than any pension.

I'm mowing fairways at one of the Fort Wayne muni's, 24 hours a week, mid-March - mid-November. I started at $9/hour plus all you can eat free golf and range balls, but I just wanted to get out and do something fun. Next year will be my 5th, and my pay jumps to $17/hour(!).

 

[bobzilla]

Why not offer both like some corporations do?
No, they got rid of pensions because they claimed it was to expensive.

I posted what the major pension funds have in them. The Elevator Industry was in the #180's on that list. With the small membership " 25,000" working and the what smaller numbers that are on retirement, I have zero fears that my checks will be cut off for lack of funds. That fund has been growing long before I started paying dues.
And if down the road 20 years of that did happen I still have my 401, an annuity account and SS coming in.

Cite please.

 

[Creedmoor]

Nothing wrong with that but you keep beating the pension horse like it was the end all be all even though in a few posts you describe other options you get.

The economics of it all are putting stresses on pensions, many of which are underfunded. Of course the government pensions are almost not funded at all.

Pensions are a form of collective, as they are promises given by those that will not be around to fulfill them, funded by others, managed by others, and not in the control of the recipient. They are not an asset, cannot be inherited, rarely can they be used as collateral and the recipient has no control what they are invested in.

The best and brightest do not want that, they want the cash they can control…

I often find it interesting when I speak to some of the best and brightest and they say they cant afford to have money taken out of there checks for the 401.
You know when the new ZR1 or GT Mustang is more important.
Don't kidd yourself, Its a huge number.

I'll add this again, out of five kids, three went to higher education and two went into jobs with pensions. We go from 57 to 68 yrs old.
Those that went the higher education, you know the brightest. they will never catch the money and investments two of us made in the years they got behind in school and working to climb the corp ladders.

 

[Creedmoor]

I'm mowing fairways at one of the Fort Wayne muni's, 24 hours a week, mid-March - mid-November. I started at $9/hour plus all you can eat free golf and range balls, but I just wanted to get out and do something fun. Next year will be my 5th, and my pay jumps to $17/hour(!).

We have two guys at our Eagles that are GM Anderson retirees, both do VERY well with retirement and SS, they mow grass like you to get them out and about. One in a mobile home community and the other at the golf course in Alex.
They have good tans.

 

[jamil]

Do you actually believe that if Unions were not offering pensions that non union companys would have offered them at all.

They did.

 

[firecadet613]

I often find it interesting when I speak to some of the best and brightest and they say they cant afford to have money taken out of there checks for the 401.
You know when the new ZR1 or GT Mustang is more important.
Don't kidd yourself, Its a huge number.

I'll add this again, out of five kids, three went to higher education and two went into jobs with pensions. We go from 57 to 68 yrs old.
Those that went the higher education, you know the brightest. they will never catch the money and investments two of us made in the years they got behind in school and working to climb the corp ladders.

Not sure they are the "best and brightest" if they aren't contributing to a 401k.

My company match is 5%. I was doing that until I was able to work myself up to a 15% contribution on my end. It's YOUR money, make it work for you...

Financial management is a skill that most just don't have and even a pension will not make up for that...

 

[jamil]

Then why in 2007 did IBM stop the new employee pension and shift to a 401?

Because pensions are ***damn expensive. Plus…wait…lemme get my hat on for this… … globalism.

 

[Creedmoor]

Not sure they are the "best and brightest" if they aren't contributing to a 401k.

My company match is 5%. I was doing that until I was able to work myself up to a 15% contribution on my end. It's YOUR money, make it work for you...

Financial management is a skill that most just don't have and even a pension will not make up for that...

But for those that have poor money skills a pension may give them lottery, ciggs and Mountain Dew for the first two weeks out of the month.

Well, Those at the middle and bottom of the income scale are ones that i'm never interested with talking about retirement and investments for retirement.
Its not my bag with what to do with what accounts and thats why I pay a man with a big house on the Potomac River to make those decisions for me.
Thats his world not mine.


Oh and 5% match that's nice in today's world.
I tend to talk with the college crowd that have an office by themselves and with that I hope I can learn something. I am constantly shocked with the amount of those that have never had payroll deductions for a retirement fund.

I tend to also look and read with how long the company requires one to be fully invested to get 100% of those matching funds. Some are instant and some have a sliding scale to 7 years that I have seen to earn those matching funds.

 

[bwframe]

Stellantis, Ford announce more layoffs from UAW strike

Some workers at Stellantis' Toledo Machining Plant in Ohio and Ford's Sterling Axle Plant have been told to stay home from work.

www.detroitnews.com

Ford lays off another 150 workers citing UAW strike

Ford Motor said late on Wednesday it is laying off another 150 workers in Michigan because of the ongoing United Auto Workers strike, bringing the total to 2,730 workers furloughed.

www.reuters.com

 

[bwframe]

 

[Creedmoor]

Because pensions are ***damn expensive. Plus…wait…lemme get my hat on for this… … globalism.

They are expensive, also IBM's gross profits the last 3 years have been just under 100 billion dollars.

 

[firecadet613]

They are expensive, also IBM's gross profits the last 3 years have been just under 100 billion dollars.

But business is in business to make money. Why would they spend any more on labor than they have to and reduce their EBITDA?

 

[firecadet613]

Oh and 5% match that's nice in today's world.
I tend to talk with the college crowd that have an office by themselves and with that I hope I can learn something. I am constantly shocked with the amount of those that have never had payroll deductions for a retirement fund.

I tend to also look and read with how long the company requires one to be fully invested to get 100% of those matching funds. Some are instant and some have a sliding scale to 7 years that I have seen to earn those matching funds.

It is and fully vested on day 1, almost as rare as a pension. I think we can all agree pensions are great for those that have them, but they've all but disappeared in the workplaces of today. If it takes a union job to get a pension, I'll pass, thanks!