U.S. Soldiers now raiding U.S. gun shops

[steveh_131]

Have you ever worked with law enforcement types? There seem to be always at least some frictions when law enforcement jurisdictions work together. "It's MY Case" isn't a rare comment.

In areas where there are multiple jurisdictions working the same case, it's almost always the case that representatives from each jurisdiction are present to ensure that their interests are involved.

I see your point here, I just don't think that the military should have any jurisdiction at all over a civilian. They should be considered the victim and should be treated accordingly.

If you're the guy who implied he was a railroad engineer, I can understand your confusion since your work life revolves around union rules which jealously guard your duties and perogatives in a different sort of fashion than occurs among paramilitary organizations like law enforcement. That's not meant to be a dig at your profession (I was a locomotive fireman one summer in my youth), it's just an attempt to explain the differences in your world view from others'.

I actually meant to imply that I'm an electrical engineer. I was saying that I don't take offense to calling the guy who drives a train an engineer as well.

Thats why they are Federal Law Enforcement Agents so they can investigate matters that involve the AF and crimes committed by civilians against the AF. Much like the DEA is involved in drug enforcement, the Treasury in counterfeiting, and so on. Each has there respective area of enforcement. The Military is no different with the exception they actually have a small group of civilians that are also FLEA.

So the people who tagged along on this raid were civilians? Not members of the air force or under the control of the air force?

If so, then I was misunderstanding the issue.

 

[steveh_131]

Logic doesn't seem to be working, so I thought I would take on the role of smart-ass for a while, see how it felt.

You're doing poorly at both. You should try the silent approach next.

 

[Expat]

I would abolish most of the alphabet agencies we are discussing.

Report theft to the local police like the rest of us are expected to.

I wonder if the people involved had their vaccines up to date.

 

[rambone]

I wonder if the people involved had their vaccines up to date.

If they were good little soldiers they would have.

 

[HICKMAN]

Perhaps we should use the local law enforcement agencies already in existence?

Perhaps the locals don't have a high enough Security Clearance to deal with the situation.

I don't know what the U.N. has to do with anything.

again, sounded like you wanted a "higher power" to perform military investigations.

Well there is a pretty distinct difference here. The military being used to initiate force against citizens is where the slippery slope lies, in my opinion.

slippery indeed. I don't expect the local PD to be able to deal with dirty bombs, nukes, terrorist cells and so forth. They can stick to writing speeding tickets and dealing with local issues.

Stolen federal/military material should be investigated by those who know it best and are specifically trained for it.

 

[GBuck]

So why did the air force need to be physically involved in the raid at all?

I think their authority should be limited to members of the air force.

Let the local agencies handle the civilians. Keep things separated.

Where'd that dang horse go??

Oh, There it is!!

 

[Blackhawk2001]

I see your point here, I just don't think that the military should have any jurisdiction at all over a civilian. They should be considered the victim and should be treated accordingly.



I actually meant to imply that I'm an electrical engineer. I was saying that I don't take offense to calling the guy who drives a train an engineer as well.



So the people who tagged along on this raid were civilians? Not members of the air force or under the control of the air force?

If so, then I was misunderstanding the issue.

Ok, so other than possibly office politics, you have NO idea how interjurisdictional issues get worked out in paramilitary bureaucracies.

Most likely the people who "tagged along" on this raid were federal agents working for the Air Force criminal investigations agency - not Air Force officers or enlisted personnel. That was their job and the case being acted upon was, apparently, their case. That the LVPD were involved shows that there was some inter-agency jurisdictional cooperation taking place. Of course, since some SWAT personnel and equipment were evidently used, this also falls into Rambone's view that militarized tactics should never be used against U.S. civilians, so you get to feel like you're in the right, anyway, don't you?

 

[HICKMAN]

You're doing poorly at both. You should try the silent approach next.

such is your opinion

I'd wager I've gotten more rep in this thread than you have wise guy

 

[Expat]

such is your opinion

I'd wager I've gotten more rep in this thread than you have wise guy

I am out, I tried to rep you again.

 

[1032JBT]

You're doing poorly at both. You should try the silent approach next.

Pot...........meet Kettle

 

[GBuck]

I am out, I tried to rep you again.

Don't worry! I got him!

 

[HICKMAN]

If they were good little soldiers they would have.

avoid that crap like the plague. nothing worse than fighting schools / local health departments over it...

 

[Blackhawk2001]

You're doing poorly at both. You should try the silent approach next.

You know, you aren't very good at intelligent arguments OR at insults. But don't let me imply you should be silent. At least try to be more entertaining.

 

[steveh_131]

Ok, so other than possibly office politics, you have NO idea how interjurisdictional issues get worked out in paramilitary bureaucracies.

Most likely the people who "tagged along" on this raid were federal agents working for the Air Force criminal investigations agency - not Air Force officers or enlisted personnel. That was their job and the case being acted upon was, apparently, their case. That the LVPD were involved shows that there was some inter-agency jurisdictional cooperation taking place. Of course, since some SWAT personnel and equipment were evidently used, this also falls into Rambone's view that militarized tactics should never be used against U.S. civilians, so you get to feel like you're in the right, anyway, don't you?

Sounds like nobody really knows who participated in this raid and in what capacity. So who knows, really. My opinion that members of the military should not be given jurisdiction over civilians, however, still stands. Hopefully you are correct that this was not the case in this particular instance.

such is your opinion

I'd wager I've gotten more rep in this thread than you have wise guy

 

[steveh_131]

You know, you aren't very good at intelligent arguments OR at insults. But don't let me imply you should be silent. At least try to be more entertaining.

You will address me as "Engineer", or "Sir". I believe I've earned it.

 

[HICKMAN]

My opinion that members of the military should not be given jurisdiction over civilians, however, still stands.

 

[HICKMAN]

and I'm no hero...

they are:

 

[steveh_131]

Not sure what the relevance of that is to the discussion at hand. But ok.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

You will address me as "Engineer", or "Sir". I believe I've earned it.

Still not very entertaining. . .

 

[steveh_131]

Why doesn't one person tell me one good reason why it is necessary for any members of the military to participate in a civilian raid?

"It's the Air Force's stuff!" is not a good enough reason to head down a potentially slippery slope. Law enforcement routinely recovers stolen property. It has never been necessary for the owners to be present during the raid.

Maybe that's not what happened in this instance. Nobody seems to know yet. But in general, why would it ever be a good idea?