Turning "low tier" AR into "good enough"

[Vigilant]

As others have said there is nothing you can change to make the snobs think your rifle is good.

I feel there are many better choices than a 6920 for the price.

A family member of mine bought a low tier rifle and was having troubles with ammo/mags that would not transfer over to my mid tier using the same mags/ammo. He did get his troubles corrected by the manufacturer but goes along with what others have stated about QC.

So what exactly are you saying, low tier ARs are exactly that? People who buy quality ARs don't have to make excuses? Or mid tier ARs are ok?

 

[Exodus]

So what exactly are you saying, low tier ARs are exactly that? People who buy quality ARs don't have to make excuses? Or mid tier ARs are ok?

To the OP I'm saying as long as your rifle is doing what you want tell the snobs to pack sand. No matter what he does to the rifle unless he changes out the lower it will always say DPMS and they will view it at that.

I guess I was also saying that buy the rifle for what your plans are. I don't see the purpose of spending 2k on an AR plus optics to shoot 100 rounds a year out of it.

 

[cwillour]

Keep on keepin on with your home built upper and lower. I for one will buy quality from day one, because I can, and even if i couldn't, I will wait until I can.

Please clarify what part of home-built implies lack of quality to you. Is it that you assume lesser-quality components are used in such builds, or is it an assumption that the labor is automatically inferior because it was done in a garage or small workshop instead of a manufacturing plant? Or do you feel a home-built upper and lower are automatically a combination of both inferior components and inferior workmanship?

I understand if you prefer to have somebody else pick the parts and do the complete assembly for you, but not everybody feels that way. Although they may well end up spending more on their custom rifle than simply picking a model from the catalog, some folks want more say in the components used than is possible with most factory-made firearms. After all, the manufacturers have to put together packages that appeal to a certain size segment of the market, but a custom builder needs to please only a single customer.

Let me ask a few more specific questions:

Between two forged 7075 stripper lower receivers cut by the same company (i.e. CMT or MMS), how much functional difference is there? Keep in mind, I am talking strictly about the stripped receiver, not anything that is then attached to it.

Does the decision to use MOE handguards instead of a $350 DD FF rail automatically mark a rifle as being of inferior quality? If so, do you put the same "inferior quality" label on the Colt 6920?

Do your really believe the DD LPK is of lessor quality than the LPK they use in their standard rifles?

How about the quality of components and workmanship that goes into the gas-block assembly on the barrels DD sells with the gas-block (or FSB) attached? Do you believe it is also of lessor quality than those on their complete rifles?

Military and police armorers have been know to take apart, execute significant repairs, and re-assemble complete rifles. Does this mark these rifles as being of lessor quality? Or do you really believe these folks pay more attention to the assembly process than is possible from a "home-builder"?

The roll-stamp on the lower receiver identifies the make of exactly one part, and a part that appears to be largely commoditized at that.

 

[engineerpower]

My plan of attack right now is to address the DPMS first by replacing the entire BCG with a BCM M16 set. ...
Stage 2 will be to replace the entire upper with a BCM 14.5" barrel with a permanently fixed flash hider to bring it up to legal length.
Stage 3 will be a replacement lower in 7075 vs. the 6061 in the DPMS. At that point, I'll move the current aftermarket parts over to the new rifle and either keep the DPMS as a plinker using all the original parts or will just sell it.

So, if I understand you, you're going to buy one rifle, and incrementally replace the BCG, upper w/barrel, lower, and aftermarket parts?

Just sell the damned thing and get the parts you want.

 

[Disposable Heart]

People keep talking about "sell the rifle and buy an XXX", I don't really think that's the case. The OP was concerned with making a low tier into something "acceptable" in his views or views of others. Most if not all lower/upper receivers are made by the same forge, it's just down to final machining at this point.

If you have a DPMS or similar, add a good barrel (Ranier Arms or higher), good bolt HEAD (don't even really need to replace the carrier if it works and is lined, check the staking though), maybe change out the LPK to something nickel-boron or similar, you are still coming out lower in price than a Colt 6920 and will have something of real note.

 

[88E30M50]

So, if I understand you, you're going to buy one rifle, and incrementally replace the BCG, upper w/barrel, lower, and aftermarket parts?

Just sell the damned thing and get the parts you want.

It's an incremental thing. I can swing $200 for a quality BCG right now and can do a complete upper later this summer. After that, it may be a couple of years before I care enough to do a lower or I might decide to do a complete lower this fall. Either way, I have a functional rifle in the mean time. And, when done, I'll have my custom build and will sell the DPMS or pass it down to one of my sons.

 

[cwillour]

So, if I understand you, you're going to buy one rifle, and incrementally replace the BCG, upper w/barrel, lower, and aftermarket parts?

Just sell the damned thing and get the parts you want.

I believe the OP has stated that he wants the option of keeping the DPMS as a range plinker, in addition to having the new firearm. Selling the DPMS now (likely at a significant loss) doesn't really achieve his end goal and would require a substantial amount of cash upfront.

While you or I may choose to go with the sell & replace route, it is the OP's money. FWIW, if selling and waiting until the cash was in-hand for the new AR meant loosing much time practicing his markmanship fundamentals with the platform, I think it could reasonably be argued that he might end up worse off overall.

 

[billt]

Does it go bang when you pull the trigger? Does it hit what you're aiming at? If yes to both I'd tell the haters to f$%^ off

This^^^^^^^^^

I've said this before, and I'll keep on saying it. There isn't enough difference in these guns to make a hoot of difference to 99.9999% of all AR-15 shooters out there. I have $700.00 Bushmasters, and $1,400.00 Colts, along with a couple of $2,500.00+ LWRC guns. All run flawlessly, and have for thousands of rounds, and years of shooting. I'm willing to bet no one on this forum has had to "stake their life" on an AR-15 in a civilian situation, and most never will. A properly cared for and lubricated DPMS will perform every bit as good as any weapon out there in that type of situation.

As far as all of these "carbine Courses", again how many people shoot 1,500-2,000 rounds of .223 in a weekend? Especially when you take into account the stuff runs over .40 cents a round now a days. I get sick and tired of listening to these guys talk like they shoot 3,000 rounds a week, and kill 7 guys a month with their guns. If is isn't "Mil-Spec", it's a "range toy". Well, my DPMS "range toy" has had thousands of rounds through it without a single hiccup. So if anyone feels safe to stand in front of it, I wish them luck.

 

[88E30M50]

How 'low tier' is a S&W M&P15? From the specs, it looks like it has a 7075 lower and everything you would want chromed, is chromed. But what about the bolt? Anybody know what they use for their bolt? I did not see any info on that on their website and looking at my rifle gives no clues.

Also, the DPMS already has a 7075-T1 lower, so no need to swap that out. For now, I'll just do the BCG and see how she runs.

 

[Rcheli1]

I think that if it puts lead where you want it then it good to go.

 

[Spike_351]

Personally I'm in the same position, have an ATI with a poly lower, first thing I done was swap for an aluminum Anderson lower, next will be a spikes tactical lpk, and free float along with a Yankee hill bolt carrier and barrel. Upgrade the buffer tube and spring and all will be well. I'm building it up based on internals mainly, I don't give a damn what's stamped on the outside, as long as everything inside is dependable and rock solid.

 

[PRasko]

As long as it functions correctly/reliably, and is somewhat decently accurate, it doesn't matter. Beat the hell out of it, have fun, and customize it to YOUR needs.

It doesn't matter what the roll mark is, as long as it meets spec.

If you're a true operator, then I understand paying coin for top gear, but most people aren't. So it's asinine to put it in their heads they NEED top brands.

 

[BroodXI]

Please clarify what part of home-built implies lack of quality to you. Is it that you assume lesser-quality components are used in such builds, or is it an assumption that the labor is automatically inferior because it was done in a garage or small workshop instead of a manufacturing plant? Or do you feel a home-built upper and lower are automatically a combination of both inferior components and inferior workmanship?

I understand if you prefer to have somebody else pick the parts and do the complete assembly for you, but not everybody feels that way. Although they may well end up spending more on their custom rifle than simply picking a model from the catalog, some folks want more say in the components used than is possible with most factory-made firearms. After all, the manufacturers have to put together packages that appeal to a certain size segment of the market, but a custom builder needs to please only a single customer.

Let me ask a few more specific questions:

Between two forged 7075 stripper lower receivers cut by the same company (i.e. CMT or MMS), how much functional difference is there? Keep in mind, I am talking strictly about the stripped receiver, not anything that is then attached to it.

Does the decision to use MOE handguards instead of a $350 DD FF rail automatically mark a rifle as being of inferior quality? If so, do you put the same "inferior quality" label on the Colt 6920?

Do your really believe the DD LPK is of lessor quality than the LPK they use in their standard rifles?

How about the quality of components and workmanship that goes into the gas-block assembly on the barrels DD sells with the gas-block (or FSB) attached? Do you believe it is also of lessor quality than those on their complete rifles?

Military and police armorers have been know to take apart, execute significant repairs, and re-assemble complete rifles. Does this mark these rifles as being of lessor quality? Or do you really believe these folks pay more attention to the assembly process than is possible from a "home-builder"?

The roll-stamp on the lower receiver identifies the make of exactly one part, and a part that appears to be largely commoditized at that.

I'm still waiting on the answer to this.

 

[HamYankee]

I would not put the money in to it to impress people. Keep it basic, get good with it. Know it inside and out. Spend that money you had allocated on mags and ammo.
When you outgrow this one, then start looking at replacement parts or a 2nd rifle.

 

[Vigilant]

I'm still waiting on the answer to this.

your answer is, I never said parts guns are of inferior quality, I said certain manufacturers are of low quality. DD, LMT, Larue, all sell "parts" to make guns. If assembled PROPERLY, by someone who knows what they are doing, you will have a decent rifle, if you start with cheap junk, you end up with polished cheap junk! It's worthless to argue, so, I guess yes, you can turn inferior quality into good enough, if good enough is all you strive for, you got it!

 

[BroodXI]

so what i gather if the parts aren't from DD, LMT, Larue, they are considered cheap junk? you apparently have never worked in QC or manufacturing.

 

[Vigilant]

so what i gather if the parts aren't from DD, LMT, Larue, they are considered cheap junk? you apparently have never worked in QC or manufacturing.

Gather what you want, those were examples, albeit the TOP of the examples, just as DPMS is at the bottom. And you are correct, no manufacturing experience, but plenty of time building and rebuilding 5.56 weapons for the military.

 

[BroodXI]

so building and rebuilding with parts that were cheapest to get the contract with DOD?

 

[engineerpower]

Many people come up with their own definitions of "Quality", but in manufacturing we define it as "consistently producing products or services that meet the customer's expectations at a profitable price margin." Key here is "consistently", and many "quality" manufacturers get that reputation because they catch the crap parts before they go out with the good parts. "Cheap" manufacturers don't spend as much time and resources inspecting/sorting their parts, so more crap gets out to be found in the field. A true "quality" manufacturer is one that is set up in such a way as that it almost never produces goods outside of the specifications, and those few that are bad are subsequently caught before they are released.

With many components being manufactured by a very few foundries or shops and used by many builders, perhaps the difference in reputation is the ability of a builder to prevent bad stock from being released, more than never having had bad stock in the first place. I've been in Quality Engineering and manufacturing/Logistics for years, and have seen both sides of the coin. One company I worked for decided to stop inspecting product in-house, and instead have the onus fall on the customer to either accept or reject the shipment. I won't name names, but if you've been treated in a hospital, you've relied on medical devices that may or may not have been inspected...

 

[Destro]

so building and rebuilding with parts that were cheapest to get the contract with DOD?

cheapest parts that meet TDP spec.