Turning Her Conscience?

[armedindy]

I should clarify: I re-read my post and realized that I painted her much more the anti-advocate then she is. Recently and for the near future I'm doing a lot of traveling for work. When I'm away from the house she requests that "her" handgun be left loaded, on safety, in the safe should there be any problems. She is competent with a handgun and is comfortable with normal operation as well as safety-aware. I'm not sure if she is so anti-rifle on account of the slippery-slope that gun addiction is or if she has some misconception about rifles being a hell of a lot more dangerous than handguns. Realistically, a round could make it through a wall and into a neighbors house marginally more easily but I'm not going to think about whether Bobby and Betsy are safe through 3+ walls and over 400ft when there's an assailant in my hallway. But I digress. She is not completely anti-gun, she is anti-more-guns and much less fond of CC even then she used to be.

I like the "Family Heirloom" concept but it is inapplicable. Each time I try to open the discussion to get a good handle on her fears and concerns I get shutdown immediately with "I just don't like it. I don't. It's not happening."

At the end of the day my drive to guarantee my family's protection and safety is going to outweigh uninformed or inappropriate fears...but I'd sure like this situation to develop smoothly.

I have heard that a 5.56 will penetrate less interior drywall than a 9mm...its so fast and so light that it destroys itself and dissipates the energy quicker than a slower moving heavier projectile....nothing works better in your favor than facts...but dont take my word for it, look it up! im just too lazy and your wife isnt my problem right now. but id be interested in your search results

 

[CPT Nervous]

Couldn't do it. Sorry. that relationship would have lasted a few weeks with me. I open carry, and will not cover it up for anyone.

I commend you for staying with her for so long.

 

[daddymikey1975]

Also, I'd rather she have 30 rounds to send down the hallway then 6 or 8. It seems the crime in my area (South Bend/Elkhart) is group-focused of late so I'd like to account for 4-5 rounds per assaulter. Seems fair to me.

Thanks again everyone for your input. Had you not strongly encouraged me to be straightforward and honest, I would likely have been caught "red handed" with a new toy and no excuses next June.

-Dobber

I'm in Mishawaka and can empathize with you. Here's my story:

We had just moved into a house in Feb. We were woke up one evening by some punk kids messing around in the alley and I heard what I believed to be radio chatter as if the police were chasing someone around so I went back to bed. the following day, we had a plumber over for some repair work and he pointed out to my wife the following statemend right after he entered my back door (alley side of my house) .. "did you know that someone tried to break into the house?".. she asked how he could tell and on my door jamb by the knob the wood is chewed up as if someone tried to use a screwdriver to gain access. This damage was fresh (I have very detailed knowledge about this house as we had lived in it before.. that's a tl;dr story) and she called me at work to tell me about it.

Immediately I felt violated.. even though they did not get into the house, I still felt violated. I purchased a used gun from a friend at work that has several. My wife and I disagreed with it vehemently. She agreed that I could keep it as long as it stayed in the fingerprint safe until I needed it and there would be no exceptions or wavering on this. I agreed and complied (although her request was flawed, I still complied)... She didn't want my kids (5 at home) to know about it or see it.. and she certainly didn't want them hurt. We tried to discuss things at length but it always ended with what SHE was comfortable with (based on her limited knowledge).. She did agree to allow me to take it to the range and shoot it so I could gain proficiency with it and know what to expect if/when the time arose to actually need it.

One weekend, I asked her if I could take my 2 older boys shooting with me and my father in law. She reluctantly agreed. After we went shooting this allowed me an excuse to have it out in the open to clean it afterwards after my younger children were in bed. I slowly began to CC around the house and she gave me a bit of attitude over the following weeks/months but tolerated it as long as it wasn't a 'big deal' and just an accessory on my belt (like a cell phone)

We began to watch a show called 'Fatal Encounters' one evening. (tl;DR).. After this particular episode, one pregnant woman was attacked violently and stabbed by another woman that was a head case and appearing to be pregnant. The first woman won the fight. My wife and I discussed this episode and how it would affect her if someone came into the house during the day when I wasn't home. We both agreed that we would BOTH get our LTCH and we began shopping for another gun for me (which I now have) and we looked for something that she could use. (she has muscular dystrophy and has limited/weak use of her hands/arms). She shot several pistols at an indoor range until we found something that she was comfortable with.

TL;DR - basically, after watching a show on TV that my wife could relate to, and after we had a discussion about how SHE could/would be able to protect herself and children if I wasn't around (cuz I can't be all the time) she agreed that it would be a good idea to have another tool for her own protection.

If you would like to go to an indoor range that is very nice, I would recommend Kodiak Firing range and Training center in South Bend. Fred is the manager over there and worked with my wife on a couple different techniques that helped her manipulate the slide and fit in her hand really well. I would be happy to meet up with you and your wife with my wife and I sometime for a dinner date/range time if you're interested.

MY WIFE even picked up a tactical .22LR rifle for my boys to use for plinking when we go to the range but I lost it in a boating accident last week

Hit me up if you'd like to go shooting some time.. There's also an INgo meet n shoot in Winimac on Sept 23rd that we plan to attend. There will by lots of firearms that your wife will be welcome to shoot and try out to see what she can handle safely if you are interested.

Sorry for the long read but I wanted to share my story (After taking my boys to the range, they were shooting an M&P .22 full size and she shot that one too and wants one as a second gun.. I think she caught the fever)

 

[Hookeye]

Is her fear out of ignorance, a bad experience, stupidity or a powerplay?
With many people (esp women - in my exp), it's the latter two.
Can't win over those.

 

[ditto]

Is her fear out of ignorance, a bad experience, stupidity or a powerplay?
With many people (esp women - in my exp), it's the latter two.
Can't win over those.

Those are fightin' words, buddy. :P

 

[youngda9]

It never ceases to amaze me how people can be so controlling or non-accepting of one another...and they get married and have children.

 

[88GT]

Today I sent her an email entitled "Negotiations" which outlined the reasons that I believed a "small" rifle was an appropriate and necessary addition to our home defense plans. I don't know if she was overcome by the wall-o-text or if she saw truth in my statements, but she agreed....kind of. Her response was to the effect: "Do what you think is best but I don't want to ever see it unless it's being used, I don't want to use it, and I don't want to hear about it." I was careful to state several times that the rifle would be "small" and have a short barrel. This way, if the concept of tax stickers ever comes up, I can claim that I was upfront. And I was.

She hasn't acquiesced. She's letting you win a battle so she can have ammo to win the war. This is not the end of it.

Caver: I agree on the shotgun, but I am not confident that she would handle a job-appropriate weapon with confidence.

You may very well be right, but don't count on her lack of experience with a rifle to improve her willingness or ability to use it just because she doesn't have a bad taste left in her mouth from prior experience.

Thanks again everyone for your input. Had you not strongly encouraged me to be straightforward and honest, I would likely have been caught "red handed" with a new toy and no excuses next June.

-Dobber

Are you the man of the house or not? Do you need an excuse or a reason?

I know I'm harsh, but who the heck negotiates on the family's safety?

Is her fear out of ignorance, a bad experience, stupidity or a powerplay?
With many people (esp women - in my exp), it's the latter two.
Can't win over those.

Yep.

 

[daddymikey1975]

I know I'm harsh, but who the heck negotiates on the family's safety?

I don't believe it's a negotiation on family safety as it is a matter of respecting differing views/opinions. In my case my wife had her own predisposed notion against guns because she was unaware of several different aspects of safety/firearms. Fortunately, she was open minded enough to allow discussion and eventually warmed up to the idea and very firmly believes as I do and is 100% supportive.

Some women aren't 100% all 'hot and bothered'... but they can be if they're warmed up to

 

[MbMinx]

Just to throw in my 1 cent...

It's not just women that need "warming up".
My husband was quite anti-gun when we met. He knew I had a couple of long guns, but he didn't want anything to do with them and he didn't want the kids to know about them.

Time passed. He went shooting shotgun with my father and I once, when my Dad was still well enough to shoot. Then we spent a weekend with his parents, who are big gun fans. We all went out to the range and he learned how to fire a pistol. Another weekend, we took the kids up and, while we didn't go shooting, his father began teaching the kids basic gun safety. When my mother decided to clear out my Dad's gun collection, my husband was with me to bring down my choices. He's gotten more comfortable about the guns, and has even encouraged me to clean them in front of the kids (great teaching moments).

He may never fall in love with guns, but he's been willing to learn, and he now supports me as I move into seriously learning more about the sport.

I think most people just don't understand - and people are afraid of things they don't understand.

 

[Dobber]

Those of you with the attitude that "It's the Man's House" and if I'm not "Wearing The Pants" the situation is dismal - are seriously misguided. Marriage is not about power plays and control. The focus of marriage should be to make every day the best day of your spouse's life. If you're religious, you'd also agree that it is your responsibility to get your spouse to heaven. I'm glad I didn't go about this the wrong way (hiding/cheating my way into a new gun) and I'm REALLY glad that my marriage doesn't resemble what you all expect from a relationship.

Marriage is selfless. Men often joke that when you get married you give up everything you love...which is ALMOST true. When you get married, you agree to respect what your spouse DOESN'T love and make sacrifices every day. I'll keep working things from my end in the responsible and respectful way that the better men here have suggested. You all enjoy your bad attitudes and fleeting relationships.

-Dobber

 

[Dobber]

Mikey - I really appreciate the offer and everything you had to contribute. I don't have much availability now or in the immediate future but would love to take you up on a double (range) date or something when things calm down. Right now is just a terrible time logistically. Thanks again!

-Dobber

 

[CitiusFortius]

How would you, did you, or should I go about addressing this sort of problem? Another wrench: She's currently prego with #2 which means that a great deal of care must be taken during this process (and no range time).

In all seriousness, ditch the guns. Seriously. My God, in another forum there was a thread about child support and a bunch of users chimed in with their own divorce stories.

Sure, there's always a chance that some meth head will come at you, but that is VERY low compared to the divorce rate in this country.

Real men put their wives above their hobbies. (And gun ownership, however bad the area is a hobby)

 

[daddymikey1975]

Mikey - I really appreciate the offer and everything you had to contribute. I don't have much availability now or in the immediate future but would love to take you up on a double (range) date or something when things calm down. Right now is just a terrible time logistically. Thanks again!

-Dobber

I have 5 children at home and I work 60 hours a week, finding range time for me sometimes is a logistical nightmare, however, I always make sure at least once a month I can go let some lead fly.

Tonight, the whole family went for a bike ride. I OC my 9mm and my 13 yr old son OC his HK USP bb gun. We rode past a Mishawaka cop that nodded and waved as we went by. Passed several people walking on sidewalks or moving their grass, or sitting on their front porch. Neither my gun nor my son's went bang and we all felt very safe stopping at 7-11 for soda while out.

Hit me up sometime and we can do a double date for dinner or something for starters to warm up to carrying or just allowing the wives to make more friends.

Good luck to ya and feel free to PM me with any ideas you might have if you want an unbiased opinion

In all seriousness, ditch the guns. Seriously. My God, in another forum there was a thread about child support and a bunch of users chimed in with their own divorce stories.

Sure, there's always a chance that some meth head will come at you, but that is VERY low compared to the divorce rate in this country.

Real men put their wives above their hobbies. (And gun ownership, however bad the area is a hobby)

^^ This is bad advice. There's nothing wrong with either spouse having hobbies. Sometimes one spouse will have a hobby that the other spouse just isn't "in to".. does this mean that the spouse that enjoys 'x' hobby is not entitled to still enjoy the hobby ?? No.. it means that the spouses will discuss their thoughts/feelings and each will be respected and both spouses will work towards a compromise until both spouses "enthusiastically agree, " however.. YMMV

 

[CitiusFortius]

^^ This is bad advice.

Yeah well, if after 7 years together they're still fighting about it, clearly keeping this hobby isn't working out too well...

It's good to keep your own interests, but if a spouse is super uncomfortable with it then maybe it's time to let it rest.

 

[Sailor]

Everyone has their roles in the home. If she is in charge of paying the bills, you let her and trust her do it the way she wants to. She is the expert in that area. (whatever roles, she in charge of)

One of your roles is the safety and security of the family. You and you alone are responsible for making that happen. You make the decisions, she needs to trust that you are making decisions based on the best interests of your family.

An Vise Versa.

 

[daddymikey1975]

Yeah well, if after 7 years together they're still fighting about it, clearly keeping this hobby isn't working out too well...

It's good to keep your own interests, but if a spouse is super uncomfortable with it then maybe it's time to let it rest.

I didn't read much about them fighting about it. What I read was that she tolerated him carrying at first and now that there's a little one in the picture, she's a bit more apprehensive. This is just her motherly instinct kicking in. She feels like she needs to protect the little one. This feeling is normal. My wife went through something similar. Adding another gun to the mix IMO is not the best idea at this stage in the game since she still needs to develop more comfort with guns period.

Easing into things slowly is always a good approach IMO and ditching the 'hobby' needn't be an option, but again, YMMV

 

[Iroquois]

My mother had these same fears when she married my dad. It took an attempted break in
while dad worked late to convince her. After that she insisted he keep a gun where she could get
it.
My ex-wife had similar misgivings and I also attempted to ease her into it to no avail.
She didn't get it for many years till her boyfreind moved in with her (years after our
divorce but before his was final) and his first wife started harassing her.
I actually loaned her a gun because my daughter still lived there.
I hope it doesn't take a near tragedy to turn her around.
My brother is married to a college professor who makes him keep his guns in the garage.
I wouldn't have married my wife now if guns were a concern to her. In fact she's helped
me host several Appleseed events on our property.
That doesn't help you though as you're in a situation that'd be painful to get out of even if
you wanted to...
I do agree that it's bad karma to sneak guns in the house. It's hard to fathom why you thought
an NFA gun was a good first step, or for that matter a 9mm was a good first gun for her.
It's too bad you can't convince her that the safest place for your carry gun is on your hip.
It's no safer in the safe and there, it's useless.
Good luck, and I hope she figures it out.

 

[ditto]

Those of you with the attitude that "It's the Man's House" and if I'm not "Wearing The Pants" the situation is dismal - are seriously misguided. Marriage is not about power plays and control. The focus of marriage should be to make every day the best day of your spouse's life. If you're religious, you'd also agree that it is your responsibility to get your spouse to heaven. I'm glad I didn't go about this the wrong way (hiding/cheating my way into a new gun) and I'm REALLY glad that my marriage doesn't resemble what you all expect from a relationship.

Marriage is selfless. Men often joke that when you get married you give up everything you love...which is ALMOST true. When you get married, you agree to respect what your spouse DOESN'T love and make sacrifices every day. I'll keep working things from my end in the responsible and respectful way that the better men here have suggested. You all enjoy your bad attitudes and fleeting relationships.

-Dobber

Dobber, for what any of it's worth I truly do believe you have a loving relationship with your wife. The way you speak of her and simply the fact that you came to this forum and respectfully requested some advice tells me you are a good husband and committed to your marriage. I commend you. We have no idea what the rest of your relationship is like. You give us little to go off of. It could be that you get on wonderfully, and simply disagree about guns. It could be otherwise...but that is none of our business.

I haven't been around here for very long, and admittedly do not even own a gun yet, but keep in mind that you came to a gun forum. There are a lot of passionate gun owners here. Do I agree with some of the "eff the wife keep your guns" style comments? Absolutely NOT. But as with any open discussion you will get a plethora of opinions and responses, not all of them you'll agree with.

You came here to ask for advice, and you got it. You weren't flamed, or mocked, or ignored. People shared their opinions. Take what you will from it, brush off the rest. There are some good natured people on here, and it's a forum worth sticking around (IMHO). I wish you and your wife the best.

 

[Hotdoger]

Those of you with the attitude that "It's the Man's House" and if I'm not "Wearing The Pants" the situation is dismal - are seriously misguided. Marriage is not about power plays and control. The focus of marriage should be to make every day the best day of your spouse's life. If you're religious, you'd also agree that it is your responsibility to get your spouse to heaven. I'm glad I didn't go about this the wrong way (hiding/cheating my way into a new gun) and I'm REALLY glad that my marriage doesn't resemble what you all expect from a relationship.

Marriage is selfless. Men often joke that when you get married you give up everything you love...which is ALMOST true. When you get married, you agree to respect what your spouse DOESN'T love and make sacrifices every day. I'll keep working things from my end in the responsible and respectful way that the better men here have suggested. You all enjoy your bad attitudes and fleeting relationships.

-Dobber

MY wife bought a butt ugly high dollar purse. I said nothing and expect the same from her when I buy a blingedout Highpoint.

"Negotiating" does nothing to make a marriage better or last it does quite the opposite. It is a sign of immaturity.

 

[churchmouse]

I will give you my story and use it as you will. When I met my darling wife of 31 yrs. we dated for about 3 months and her catholic up-bringing was not in alignment with my lifestyle at all. We had little in common. We split for a bit and re-united at a friends new years eve party and been together since. In her mind, Guns, Harley's and tattoo's were for trailer trash. She is not a snooty person at all just never exposed to the finer things in life (hehehe) In our time together she has owned her own Harley, has a sweet tattoo and Likes my hobby. It took a lot of patience and understanding on my part to get her to come around.
Her father had been shot in a hold up where he worked and lost a leg from the knee down so I had my work cut out for me.

I would suggest a shotgun for home defense. An M-4 is a bit much for the reasons you mentioned. Over penetration. It sounds like you want one (I get it) but do not use the home defense card for that especially if she is packing a bun in the oven.

Do the shotgun thing. Get her into the M-4 later.


PS.. Marriage is a partnership. Choose your partner wisely and do everything you can to keep her. If you change during the relationship, give her the opportunity to adjust. It sounds like she knew of your fondness for firearms during the early stages so she needs to give a bit on your behalf. Give her the chance but again...slowly. Also, woman can see straight through us so do not us the self defense card for the new AR you so deeply desire. The pistol at Christmas would have gotten me reamed.